Talk:Paul Palaiologos Tagaris/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Caponer (talk · contribs) 13:41, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Cplakidas, I plan on reviewing this article within the next few days. Upon my initial review, I feel that it meets most Good Article criteria, and I look forward to reviewing it more thoroughly! Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns in the meantime! -- Caponer (talk) 13:41, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, no copyvios, spelling and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Cplakidas, I've completed my thorough review of this article and I find that it meets the criteria for passage to Good Article status. Before proceeding, I had a few comments and suggestions that need to be addressed, which I've shared below. Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns in the meantime. Thanks again for all your tremendous contributions to Wikipedia and for a job well done on this article! -- Caponer (talk) 04:22, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Overall and lead

• Would it be possible to include an Template:Infobox person at the top with all his biographical metadata? Because he was a titular "Latin Patriarch of Constantinople," you could possibly utilize Template:Infobox Christian leader as it is used in Isidore of Kiev, Giles of Viterbo, and Giuseppe Ceppetelli. I'll leave it up to you to decide which is appropriate, but either way, there should be a biographical template at the top.
• Content from the "Early life and family" section needs to be included in the article's introduction paragraph. You could include that he was apparently a scion the Tagaris family, or that Tagaris himself also claimed to be related to the ruling Palaiologoi and adopted the surname for himself. The remaining three sections seem to be sufficiently represented in the article's lead.

Early life and family

• Is it possible to find a third source for Tagaris' date of birth? It's likely there isn't another source to cite here, but it would help if there is one out there that would narrow down the twenty-year spread between Nicol and PLP.

Career in the East

• You may want to wiki-link both Tyre and Sidon here for those readers unfamiliar with these cities.
• This section reads well and with the exception of the above comment, I have no further suggestions here.

Latin Patriarch of Constantinople

• In keeping with WP:COLLOQUIAL, I wonder if it would be possible to reword phrases like "went to his head." Would it sound more encyclopedic or businesslike, if you were to write that the position caused him to become arrogant or conceited?
• I suggest wiki-linking vestment.
• This section reads well and with the exception of the above comments, I have no further suggestions here.

Return to Constantinople

• Also in keeping with WP:COLLOQUIAL, I wonder if you might find a more businesslike/encyclopedic way of rewriting "burned his bridges". Something like: "having destroyed his relationships/connections with both papal courts".
• This section reads well and with the exception of the above comment, I have no further suggestions here.

Hello and thanks for taking the time to review this. I've implemented your suggestions, and rewritten the lede to be a bit more comprehensive. For the birth dates, the two dates given are guesstimates based on whether he was a son (as proposed by Nicol) or grandson (preferred by Trapp) of Manuel Tagaris, or at any rate belonged to the relevant generations. The reasoning is not explicitly stated in the sources, but is pretty much self-evident. Do you have any suggestion on how to include this in the text? As an aside, did you find the article comprehensible, given the frequent change of scenery and the many names that appear there? Are there any spots where you feel I should provide more detail on the background? Thanks again for your time. Constantine ✍ 09:17, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Cplakidas, thank you for taking the time to address all the above questions and comments in such a timely manner! After I received your explanation of the difference in birth dates, I re-read the text, and I too feel that it is self-explanatory/self-evident. I did find the article to be easily understandable, and commend you on doing such a good job of providing appropriate context and background for each stage of his travels and mischief. I was a bit curious how he was able to acquire the head of James the Just, the foot of Saint Anne, and a nail from the True Cross in order to present them to the public at Ancona. I also assume that the seat of the Latin Patriarchate moved to Negroponte, as it remained a Catholic stronghold under the leadership of Venetian families. All in all I think you've done a tremendous job in weaving together the story of Tagaris' life in a way that is digestible for Wikipedia's users. Let me know if you have any further comments or questions, after which we'll proceed in finishing the GA process! -- Caponer (talk) 11:30, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your kind words, they are much appreciated. You raise a good point regarding the relics. I have added a quote (which I intended, but forgot to include) from Nicol, who, quite rightly, is suspicious of the authenticity of these relics. I also clarified the situation for Negroponte, just to be on the safe side. Constantine ✍ 11:52, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Constantine, it has been an absolute pleasure reviewing this article, and I cannot praise you enough for all your stellar contributions! I re-reviewed your additions regarding the relics and Negroponte background, and everything looks good to go! It is hereby a privilege for me to pass this article to Good Article status! Congratulations on a job well done! -- Caponer (talk) 17:27, 9 June 2014 (UTC)