Talk:Parri government
Latest comment: 1 year ago by BD2412 in topic Requested move 17 December 2022
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Requested move 17 December 2022 edit
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Moved as proposed. A policy-based consensus is clear. BD2412 T 22:58, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
- Parri Cabinet → Parri government
- Bonomi III Cabinet → Third Bonomi government
- Bonomi II Cabinet → Second Bonomi government
- Badoglio II Cabinet → Second Badoglio government
- Badoglio I Cabinet → First Badoglio government
- Mussolini Cabinet → Mussolini government
- Facta II Cabinet → Second Facta government
- Facta I Cabinet → First Facta government
- Bonomi I Cabinet → First Bonomi government
- Giolitti V Cabinet → Fifth Giolitti government
- Nitti II Cabinet → Second Nitti government
- Nitti I Cabinet → First Nitti government
- Orlando Cabinet → Orlando government
- Boselli Cabinet → Boselli government
- Salandra II Cabinet → Second Salandra government
- Salandra I Cabinet → First Salandra government
- Giolitti IV Cabinet → Fourth Giolitti government
- Luzzatti Cabinet → Luzzatti government
- Sonnino II Cabinet → Second Sonnino government
- Giolitti III Cabinet → Third Giolitti government
- Sonnino I Cabinet → First Sonnino government
- Fortis II Cabinet → Second Fortis government
- Fortis I Cabinet → First Fortis government
- Tittoni Cabinet → Tittoni government
- Giolitti II Cabinet → Second Giolitti government
- Zanardelli Cabinet → Zanardelli government
- Saracco Cabinet → Saracco government
- Pelloux II Cabinet → Second Pelloux government
- Pelloux I Cabinet → First Pelloux government
- Di Rudinì V Cabinet → Fifth di Rudinì government
- Di Rudinì IV Cabinet → Fourth di Rudinì government
- Di Rudinì III Cabinet → Third di Rudinì government
- Di Rudinì II Cabinet → Second di Rudinì government
- Crispi IV Cabinet → Fourth Crispi government
- Crispi III Cabinet → Third Crispi government
- Giolitti I Cabinet → First Giolitti government
- Di Rudinì I Cabinet → First di Rudinì government
- Crispi II Cabinet → Second Crispi government
- Crispi I Cabinet → First Crispi government
- Depretis VIII Cabinet → Eighth Depretis government
- Depretis VII Cabinet → Seventh Depretis government
- Depretis VI Cabinet → Sixth Depretis government
- Depretis V Cabinet → Fifth Depretis government
- Depretis IV Cabinet → Fourth Depretis government
- Cairoli III Cabinet → Third Cairoli government
- Cairoli II Cabinet → Second Cairoli government
- Depretis III Cabinet → Third Depretis government
- Cairoli I Cabinet → First Cairoli government
- Depretis II Cabinet → Second Depretis government
- Depretis I Cabinet → First Depretis government
- Minghetti II Cabinet → Second Minghetti government
- Lanza Cabinet → Lanza government
- Menabrea III Cabinet → Third Menabrea government
- Menabrea II Cabinet → Second Menabrea government
- Menabrea I Cabinet → First Menabrea government
- Rattazzi II Cabinet → Second Rattazzi government
- Ricasoli II Cabinet → Second Ricasoli government
- La Marmora III Cabinet → Third La Marmora government
- La Marmora II Cabinet → Second La Marmora government
- Minghetti I Cabinet → First Minghetti government
- Farini Cabinet → Farini government
- Rattazzi I Cabinet → First Rattazzi government
- Ricasoli I Cabinet → First Ricasoli government
- Cavour IV Cabinet → Fourth Cavour government
– In line with what was already established in Talk:Meloni government, all Italian governments should have the same title format. Scia Della Cometa (talk) 22:21, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
- Support as the correct term in Italian is governo, not gabinetto and for obvious reasons of consistency, per nominator. --Checco (talk) 07:48, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose the replacement of Cabinet with government but support the numbering part of the proposal. All these articles are specifically about the cabinets as that term is used in English, one aspect of government as that term is used in English. Government is a broader topic in English. What the correct term is in Italian is irrelevant as this English WP. DeCausa (talk) 11:39, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
- @User:DeCausa: You are probably unaware of the fact that all governments of Italy since 1945 have already been moved to the "Xxxx format" and that several similar articles include "government", not "cabinet" (see Template:EU governments). "Government" is perfectly OK for "cabinet" in English, otherwise we would not have Template:Governments of Ireland and several other examples. However, it is true that we should have a naming convention on governments (it is not OK to have some articles on governments named with the "Xxxx government" and others with the "Xxxx cabinet" format). --Checco (talk) 13:53, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
- WP:OTHERCONTENT. None of that changes my view. In English, "X Government" for a list of cabinet members, which all of these articles are, is misleading and I oppose it. DeCausa (talk) 14:06, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
- @DeCausa I understand your reasoning, but there is an evident problem of consistency between articles of the same type. This is my main concern, consistency is too important in my view. You are right that these articles only list cabinet members (i.e. only ministers), but this issue affects articles concerning all governments up to the 1990s. Changing the title of each page depending on which government members are listed in the article it would become too complex, am I wrong? --Scia Della Cometa (talk) 22:34, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
- Do you mean consistency between countries? I don't think that's a major issue.There's plenty of articles that use "cabinet". The British ones use "ministry" which is ok bit a little outdated. in parliamentary democracies the normal term in English is cabinet per English lanuage WP:RS and thst's why it should be used here. I don't understand the last point. The determinat for the page is who the PM is. DeCausa (talk) 08:20, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
- @DeCausa not between countries, but between governments of the same country (Italy in this case): as I explained in the incipit, I mean the consistency with the other Italian governments from 1946 onwards. A possible rejection in this RM would create a problem with the already moved pages.--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 19:39, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
- That seems a strange argument: these moves have to be made to be consistent with already made yet faulty moves. I suggest it should be the other way round. Those other articles to be moved to reflect appropriate English language usage, in the way that I have proposed. DeCausa (talk) 20:34, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
- @DeCausa not between countries, but between governments of the same country (Italy in this case): as I explained in the incipit, I mean the consistency with the other Italian governments from 1946 onwards. A possible rejection in this RM would create a problem with the already moved pages.--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 19:39, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
- Do you mean consistency between countries? I don't think that's a major issue.There's plenty of articles that use "cabinet". The British ones use "ministry" which is ok bit a little outdated. in parliamentary democracies the normal term in English is cabinet per English lanuage WP:RS and thst's why it should be used here. I don't understand the last point. The determinat for the page is who the PM is. DeCausa (talk) 08:20, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
- @DeCausa I understand your reasoning, but there is an evident problem of consistency between articles of the same type. This is my main concern, consistency is too important in my view. You are right that these articles only list cabinet members (i.e. only ministers), but this issue affects articles concerning all governments up to the 1990s. Changing the title of each page depending on which government members are listed in the article it would become too complex, am I wrong? --Scia Della Cometa (talk) 22:34, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
- WP:OTHERCONTENT. None of that changes my view. In English, "X Government" for a list of cabinet members, which all of these articles are, is misleading and I oppose it. DeCausa (talk) 14:06, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
- @User:DeCausa: You are probably unaware of the fact that all governments of Italy since 1945 have already been moved to the "Xxxx format" and that several similar articles include "government", not "cabinet" (see Template:EU governments). "Government" is perfectly OK for "cabinet" in English, otherwise we would not have Template:Governments of Ireland and several other examples. However, it is true that we should have a naming convention on governments (it is not OK to have some articles on governments named with the "Xxxx government" and others with the "Xxxx cabinet" format). --Checco (talk) 13:53, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
- Support. I would also accept "X ministry". "Cabinet" is a peculiar technical term of Anglo-American politics, not language. It is weird to talk about Italian "cabinets" but British "ministries", where the term 'cabinet' only exists in the latter, while the former uses "council of ministers". Moreover, the current title is poor language usage - as we don't refer to "X cabinet", but the possessive "X's cabinet". ("Lincoln's cabinet", not "Lincoln cabinet"). I would support the extrication of the "cabinet" term not only from he titles all the Italian government articles, but also wherever else they appear here (e.g. there are a few French ones). I am a bit ambivalent between "X government" and "X ministry", but both are undoubted improvements over "x cabinet". But given the consensus on Talk:Meloni government for post-war Italian governments, I would support the same "X government" format for pre-war governments for consistency. Walrasiad (talk) 23:54, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
- Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 00:59, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.