Talk:Parkways in New York

Scope of this list

This article is a jumbled mess The lead seems to be exclusively discussing the state-designated parkways, but then as the reader goes down the list the list's focus gradually gets farther and farther away from that, eventually leading to "parkways" that have no connection to the state-designated ones. Either that last section needs to be junked, or the lead needs a complete overhaul. This article also needs to be renamed to "Parkways in New York" to match every other New York state-related article. – TMF 23:04, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

The article is clearly on parkways New York in general. Perhaps the lead paragraph could use a rewrite, and a couple of the ones listed as non-state parkways should probably be moved to the state lists, particularly the Hudson Valley chapter. ----DanTD (talk) 23:25, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

If it is supposed to be on all parkways in the state, the lead absolutely needs a rewrite. – TMF 23:26, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

The focus when it was created was on the New York State Parkway System established in the early 1900s. Expanding it beyond that could be considered. But without a major rewrite it should not be a place for every road in the state called a parkway. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:31, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

It's been three months, and nothing has been done about this issue. Unless something is done soon, I'll take matters into my own hands and remove all of the non-state parkways. – TMF 20:07, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, I'd certainly like to be able to do something, but I'm not sure exactly what to write. Do you have any particlular rewrite in mind? ----DanTD (talk) 21:49, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, but it involves keeping the parkways discussed by the current lead (the "State parkways") and tossing the rest. If that doesn't sound palatable to you, I suggest that you work on a lead that somehow covers all of the article's contents and justifies the inclusion of the "County and local parkways". I've explained exactly what the problem is with the current lead in my prior posts, and if you can't figure out what the current lead's problem is from that, then I really can't help you.

On a different note, I don't see why Lake Welch is considered a local parkway if Seven Lakes and the PIP are considered state parkways. All three routes have reference route numbers, and like Lake Welch, part of Seven Lakes isn't DOT-maintained - in fact, all but 0.33 miles of it isn't - and none of the PIP is. It thus follows that all three should be categorized in the same manner. – TMF 05:14, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

I think the only reason Lake Welch, Seven Lakes, Tiorati Brook, etc. could even be considered "local" is because they're exclusivley within Harriman State Park. I admit that's not a good excuse, so they should be moved to the state Hudson Valley chapter. ----DanTD (talk) 06:06, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

I disagree with the move of Arden Valley and Tiorati Brook roads, however. They don't carry any kind of state clout: they're not limited-access highways and they don't have reference route numbers. The Palisades Interstate Park Commission != any department of the state of New York. Both roads are of local importance, much more so than any of the three parkways I mentioned above. I'd go so far as to argue that they shouldn't be here at all, but I won't reopen that can of worms...for now. – TMF 06:14, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, Seven Lakes Drive isn't a limited-access highway either, but like Lake Welch, Tiorati Brook, and Arden Valley, it's a park road that forbids commercial traffic. I'll say this for a lot of the regional parkways; the ones in Westchester were part of the same agencies that built the Saw Mill, Taconic, and Bear Mountain Parkways, and those are state parkways. William Floyd Parkway(Suffolk CR 46) and the Fire Island Beach Road(Suffolk CR 75), were both built on formerly proposed right-of-ways for state parkways. If we can include these facts in the article somehow, those non-state parkways may be worth keeping. I don't know enough about the Onondaga Lake Parkway to determine whether it's worth keeping or not(that's closer to your neck of the woods), but Farragut Parkway is really just a spur of Saw Mill River Parkway.

BTW, I haven't been able to do too much on the internet latley, since we've been getting all these storms in Central Florida, and I've had to shut down internet access from time to time. So I'll probably have to shut it down again. ----DanTD (talk) 19:06, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

All of Seven Lakes Drive has a reference route designation, and most of it has a reference route designation in the range reserved for parkways. The entirety of Lake Welch Parkway has a parkway reference route number. Arden Valley and Tiorati Brook roads don't have any reference route designations, and thus those two routes shouldn't be listed as state parkways.

Onondaga Lake Parkway probably shouldn't be listed here - it's just a small portion of NY 370 in Salina that's better known by its number than its name. – TMF 14:05, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Okay, so I suppose we can redirect that to NY 370 even if it's not used on this list. As for Arden Valley and Tiorati Brook, while they don't have any reference route designations, they are considered park roads of PIPC, so I'll move those back to the County and Local list. ----DanTD (talk) 16:19, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Lake Ontario State Parkway

The change at 527181374 was made for the parkway (western terminus) originating in Carlton to Lakeside Beach State Park/Carlton, as that is more informative. Additionally, listing the parkway in the From or To column is consistent with listings of several other parkways in the article (Bethpage State Parkway - Bethpage State Park, Seven Lakes Drive - Bear Mountain State Park, Robert Moses Causeway - Robert Moses State Park and others). Lastly, the change is consistent with the article for the Lake Ontario State Parkway which notes "The Lake Ontario State Parkway begins at an interchange with Lakeside Beach Road in Lakeside Beach State Park, located within the town of Carlton in north-central Orleans County." Integre (talk) 22:25, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

The other parks you mention are listed because they're either very large or otherwise notable on a state level, making them the best way to identify the termini in question. Lakeside Beach State Park is neither, which is why the town is listed instead. – TMF (talk) 19:32, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

This seems to be a fairly subjective criteria for why parkways are listed in the To and From columns versus towns. At the very least, listing Lakeside Beach State Park/Carlton is accurate and also correctly denotes that the park is a terminus of the parkway, something that is noted in the articles for the Lake Ontario State Parkway ("The western end of the highway is at a partial interchange within Lakeside Beach State Park in Carlton, Orleans County") and Lakeside Beach State Park ("The park is also the western terminus of the Lake Ontario State Parkway").Integre (talk) 01:46, 12 December 2012 (UTC)Integre (talk) 02:34, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

It is subjective, yes, but I don't see anything wrong with that. I see it more along the lines of editorial judgment. As for your other comments... you make it sound like there's some conspiracy to hide any reference to the park.

Lastly, I monitor ~700 articles related to roads in New York, and frankly, it's kind of annoying to have to continually deal with trivial issues relating to one specific road. – TMF (talk) 03:55, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

My original edit to modify Carlton to Lakeside Beach State Park/Carlton in the article was to provide a hopefully more informative location of one terminus. As was noted last evening, two Wikipedia articles themselves list Lakeside Beach State Park as being in/a terminus of the Lake Ontario State Parkway, so I did not think that was blazing new ground. Using Lakeside Beach State Park/Carlton as a terminus seemed an appropriate way to improve the article.Integre (talk) 12:42, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Is listing the west termini of the Lake Ontario State Parkway as being Lakeside Beach State Park/Carlton result in the article being less accurate or readable rather than listing only Carlton? The objective of making the edit is to help improve the article. Integre (talk) 13:26, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Using colons for headings

Why are we using colons for headings (e.g. ;List of parkways) rather than using bold text ('''List of parkways''') around the headings? Don't the colons make it harder for the visually impaired to read the article? Besides, there's virtually no difference between the usage of colons and bold text for headings, for the vast majority of us who aren't visually impaired. What is the controversy about? Epicgenius^{(talk to me • see my contributions)} 17:14, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

notice the Palisades Interstate Parkway is partly in NJ

The article is entitled "Parkways in New York", but the Palisades Interstate Parkway is partly in New Jersey, so the text needs to mention that. "Fort Lee, NJ" is mentioned in the list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 (talk) 18:26, 21 November 2013 (UTC)