Talk:Panache

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Last paragraph

The last paragraph reads:-
"Panache is a term that Rostand himself created. It stands for many things most of which are honor and pride, but not limiting to that. Panache is the little oomph that brings something over the top. It’s almost the over exaggeration of anything logical, the mere presence of a stronger being inside ones self is worth all the effort to give it. Panache is kind of a thunder inside that as soon as you let it open it pushes itself more and more. It’s what makes the proud, proud it’s the pseudo greatness that we all have inside. Panache is pushing things over the top; it’s adding that always needed extra effort that no one else seems to give."
It seems a bit dubious, and is unsourced (and anonymous)so I've moved it here for discussion. What does anyone else think? Is it OK? Swanny18 11:24, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Opening Sentence

The opening sentence reads: "Panache is a French word for which there is no English equivalent..."
Although panache is a word of French origin, it has been used by English speakers for over 100 years (see the OED). After 100 years, I think that the English can now claim that they also own the word - like any other French borrowing. I would recommend changing the opening sentence to "Panache is a word used to describe someone who has a dashing confidence of style - one that shows a certain flamboyance and courage. Panache was borrowed from the French during the early 19th century [see OED], and its meaning has been extended to include anything which is capable of displaying such attributes - for example, various food dishes. The literal meaning of the word is a plume... etc" lxowle (talk) 21:35, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, it reads "Panache is a French word for which there is no English equivalent, but carries the connotation of a flamboyant manner and reckless courage."... doesn't that cover it? And there isn't an English equivalent, which is why we use the French word: And what's that about food dishes? Swanny18 (talk) 12:51, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure I agree, sure panache is a word of French origin, but (I think) it is now also an English word - it has been used by English speakers for over 100 years. Do you see what I'm getting at (even if you disagree)? Saying there is no English equivalent for panache is kind of like saying there is no English equivalent for Stallion - just because the word happens to have come from France. What do you think? lxowle (talk) 20:59, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking about this after you said it: Its true that a lot of English words are of French origin, from abandon to zest, and we think of them as English. (I didn't find “stallion”; good one!). On the other hand, there are words we understand and use, but remain un-english (glasnost, for example; rapprochement, for a French example). I had thought of “panache “ as one of the latter, but I can see how you could regard it as the former. If you feel strongly to change it, fair enough (the discussion is here if anyone else wishes to chime in). I would urge you to use/keep the OED reference link though.

I'm still intrigued by the food dish idea; are you thinking of expanding the piece to include modern uses like that? I had seen this page as an adjunct to the Cyrano de Bergerac (play) page, a sort of a glorified footnote; If you want to extend it to other uses of the word, can I suggest sectioning the piece, say a "Rostand" section and a "Current Use" section? Swanny18 (talk) 16:50, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I have changed the opening sentence. See the citations on wikt:panache, which includes an 1894 source in which the French chic, mais chic is italicized as French, but "panache" is not italicized as it was not considered a foreign word. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:41, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, fair enough, as Ixowle felt the same way. But the reference is shaky; WP shouldn't be self-referencing, should it? And the entry there does not have chic, mais chic italicized; so it really doesn't help the case. Swanny18 (talk) 13:24, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Re: food dishes: when it's used in the form "panache of *" it refers to a mixture, like a stew, as in the title of this recipe [1] and in this definition [2]. Is this derived from the combination of feathers in the plumes of the original definition, or a usage with a distinct etymology? Close Reader (talk) 22:34, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Panache and shandy are not connected

The French word for a shandy is a panaché with an e acute at the end, which is not the same as a panache. See [3] for more details. 82.69.179.242 (talk) 09:51, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Current use

Not sure whether this is in any form relevant. I just wanted to share with you another form of how panache is used. I recently read an article on businessweek.com about Starbucks problem with Unions. It reads, "The timing isn't ideal for Starbucks, which faces lower demand from the recession, an overall loss of panache for the brand, and a sliding stock price." Whether this a correct usage of the word, that is for others to decide. Since I'm not a native speaker, I had to look it up on the web which brought me to this discussion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.178.120.198 (talk) 23:26, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Panache of vegetables

Much as I dislike the term, it is a very common 'current use' of the term to denote a flamboyantly-presented dish of food (or 'mixed veg' as it generally turns out to be). I think it goes beyond word defintion - it's as relevent here as someone using a star trek term in general conversation, I'd think. Anyway, I tried to find a source to demonstrate this as a notable enough thing but all I can get are online menus of dubious quality. Does anyone have a good enough source that we can use to include this here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Antreid (talk • contribs) 15:54, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

If you read above, you will see that this is a slightly different term: panaché and not panache. It's true that some people (and book editors) systematically omit accents, but since this is a French word for a French dish and the accent affects the pronunciation, it is worth keeping it. METRANGOLO1 (talk) 07:59, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Vandalism?

I have never edited Wikipedia before, but I made an account just to say that the first sentence of this article appears to be complete hogwash: "Panache is a word of Revelian origin that carries the connotation of flamboyant manner and reckless courage, derived from the ill-described trade executed by several panache loving Mahomies.[1]" None of that means anything.