Talk:Pamela Anderson/Archive 2

{archive}} {== Centennial baby ==

The article currently says: Anderson got some press coverage right after her birth as the country's "Centennial Baby", having been the first baby born on July 1, 1967, the 100th anniversary of Canada's official founding via the Constitution Act, 1867. Admittedly, the source cited does say that, but it seems implausible because of the time zones in Canada. Anderson was born in British Columbia, which is in the Pacific Time Zone. Even if she was born at 12 a.m. there (and I have no information about what time of day she was born), it would already have been 4:30 a.m. in Newfoundland, 4 a.m. in the other Atlantic provinces, and 3 a.m. in Ontario and Quebec which were home to the majority of the country's population. Thus, it seems implausible that Pamela Anderson -- or any other British Columbian -- could have been the first baby born in the entire country on Canada's centennial day. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 03:27, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

This is usually local, not national, see details here, she was the first baby in the Ladysmith-Chemainus area:

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/pamela-anderson-lee-profile/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.117.174.82 (talk) 07:47, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

I've changed the article to say she was a Centennial baby, not the Centennial baby, per multiple sources. TwoTwoHello (talk) 16:07, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20091220040126/http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/theatre/review-23784558-pamela-andersons-really-quite-a-game-genie-in-aladdin.do to http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/theatre/review-23784558-pamela-andersons-really-quite-a-game-genie-in-aladdin.do

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Pamela-Anderson-Wearing-A-Black-Dress-and-Black-High-Heels-In-A-Art-Gallery.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:22, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

Edit-warring

An editor today has restored a reverted edit, rather than following WP:BRD protocol. The reverted edit was a WP:BLP violation, making a claim that the cited source does not say. --Tenebrae (talk) 21:23, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

By this point I'm just going to assume you want to go against the likes of the Los Angeles Times. Even they said, Pamela Anderson and Jon Peters are no longer married. In fact, they never were. All reputable media outlets reporting on this say the same thing! If you wanted their fairytale marriage to succeed... hate to break it to you. ⌚️ (talk) 21:53, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

The Los Angeles Times is citing The Hollywood Reporter when in turn cited an anonymous source. Anonymous sources make claims all the time. They're not WP:RS for Wikipedia WP:BLP articles, since an anonymous source making a claim is simply a rumor. Wikipedia doesn't propagate rumors. Also, there's no deadline. We wait for concrete facts to emerge. --Tenebrae (talk) 23:02, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

Yet if multiple publications are validating that story from The Hollywood Reporter, it’s a confirmation. Journalists have sources, that’s nothing new. Marriage is also a public record, there can’t be a record of something that doesn’t exist. (No one is coming here to put the “he dumped her over text!” nonsense.) Prime example: Back when Shia LaBeouf got “married” editors jumped over to Wikipedia to be first... only to be wrong. ⌚️ (talk) 23:13, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

Y'know, it sounds from that last remark that we agree it's better to be careful than fast.

Multiple publications are repeating something they've heard in other publications, all cited to an anonymous, unattributed, shadowy "source." In other words, they're reporting a rumor, which makes it unusable under WP:BLP. I'm sure you've heard the statement "Journalism is the first draft of history." I would bet you and I are in agreement that an encyclopedia isn't. BLP, rightly, tells us to wait and and get something concrete before we put a personal-life claim about a living person into this encyclopedia. I hope that's something you want as well, since I genuinely believe we both want to be careful and meticulous.--Tenebrae (talk) 05:00, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

I just think marriage is marriage and if we present something as marriage when it demonstrably isn't (especially given something that lasted less time than a NBA Finals), we're lying. That's serious. If it was in fact a legal marriage there would have to be registration of that, which all these news sites are saying didn't actually happen, otherwise they could have requested a copy of the license. So how is it wrong to tell the audience coming here expecting biographical facts, that multiple reliable sources report that the marriage plausibly wasn't even legal. ⌚️ (talk) 17:12, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

Again, I think we're more in agreement than not: Marriage, as you righty state, is one of the biggest milestones of a WP:BLP and needs to be presented accurately. What I'm seeing is that the subjects themselves announced a marriage, which numerous RS sources reported. Many of those same sources also reported that the marriage certificate was not filed — yet still said the couple was married, using that word. I don't think we can state for a fact that the mere neglect or delay in filing a marriage certificate means a marriage is invalid; the obtaining of a marriage certificate certainly is required, normally. But the filing of certificates can be delayed for any number of reasons; birth certificates and death certificate occasionally are not filed immediately, but that doesn't mean the birth or the death did not take place.--Tenebrae (talk) 20:37, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

And to your secondary point: Not everything in RS outlets is necessarily RS — especially reporting from anonymous "sources" for a BLP article. What's the anonymous source's agenda? What's the anonymous source's credibility? Me, I can certainly imagine Jon Peters' publicist anonymously spinning that the marriage in the community-property state of California wasn't valid if Peters neglected to get a prenup. That's one of many examples of why anonymous sources aren't trustworthy for a BLP. --Tenebrae (talk) 20:41, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

No «Marriage License», «Divorce Decree» or «Separation Agreement» is, or was at any point, registered with any State Court in Canada or the United States (or anywhere else for that matter). This can be verified by looking up civil records in both Canada and the United States and has been confirmed by Ms. Anderson herself in the NYtimes recently: nytimes.com/2020/05/28/style/pamela-anderson-webcam.html. Please provide evidence of a «Marriage License», «Divorce Decree» or «Separation Agreement» issued by a Court anywhere in the world in case you insist on listing her has having been «Married», «Divorced» or «Separated» to «Jon Peters». I am privy to this information at the highest levels to confirm that No such act has been registered between the two parties. Meungvax (talk) 06:54, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

I'm afraid that's not how Wikipedia works, and that's especially not how the policy at Biographies of Living Persons works.

Firstly, anyone can claim that "I am privy to this information at the highest levels to confirm that No such act has been registered between the two parties." That's disallowed as a claim of personal original research of primary documents All Wikipedia content is to be verified by a third-party journalistic / reference or similar source.

In particular, we can make no uncited personal-life claims about living people, again as per the policy at WP:BLP. You state: "Please provide evidence of a «Marriage License», «Divorce Decree» or «Separation Agreement»" The answer is: That has been done, in the journalistic citations given in footnotes.

Please make no more unilateral edits in defiance of Wikipedia WP:BLP policy, and instead try to reach consensus with fellow editors here. I should note that admins take a dim view of BLP edit-warring, and can WP:BLOCK a person from editing in response. --Tenebrae (talk) 20:16, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Addendum: I see you made these same edits on June 12, so you are, in fact, already edit-warring. An admin will take that into account if intervention must be requested. --Tenebrae (talk) 20:18, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

The journalists in question do not have a «Marriage License», «Divorce Decree» or «Separation Agreement» because none exists. This is evidenced by the fact that No journalist is able to produce a Formalized Start/End Date to this presumed event, Because, No Such Event Has Taken Place. Please provide evidence to the existence of this document. Meungvax (talk) 11:15, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Again, Wikipedia does not do personal original research with primary documents. In any event, you brought this discussion to my user talk page, and I have made the requested suggestion there.--Tenebrae (talk) 15:05, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

On which evidence did you base the Start and End dates for this presumed event? Meungvax (talk) 11:48, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

The cited sources, which including a quote from Anderson's publicist confirming the marriage, and a quote from Anderson calling it "a union." --Tenebrae (talk) 12:45, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

Jon Peters marriage

An editor is claiming Pamela Anderson said her Jon Peters marriage was annulled, rather than ending in divorce. Yet no cite was provided and a quick check on the Internet turns up no such quote. We cannot make a personal-life claim of annulment without WP:RS citing. That's a WP:BLP violation.--Tenebrae (talk) 14:03, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 February 2022

Link to Rick Salomon is lined to the incorrect person. It states that he is a film producer whereas the link is to a poker player. 47.25.94.58 (talk) 06:13, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

 Partly done: Removed film producer, as it was low key vandalism. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:01, 17 February 2022 (UTC)