Talk:Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel
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NPR story about rockets
editThis NPR story at least acknowledges that some rockets fired from Gaza fell short and landed within Gaza. https://www.npr.org/2021/05/11/995875422/28-reported-dead-in-gaza-from-israeli-airstrikes-gaza-rockets-kill-2-in-israel
Sorry, I forgot to sign. Socialresearch (talk) 00:28, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
Unreliable sources
editThe first source originates from B'Tselem, an organization widely known for its extreme anti-Israeli and pro-Palestinian bias. Not only is quoting it in an any article against Wikipedia's rules for reliable sources, but quoting it in an article regarding Palestinian terror attacks on Israelis is nothing short of lunacy. As per Wikipedia's mission to be reliable, unbiased and truth-conforming, I request that the source used would be replaced with a more neutral source with no heavy political bias. 2.55.140.118 (talk) 11:17, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
- Is there any particular claim in the article attributed to B'Tselem that you dispute? “WarKosign” 11:42, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
- The numbers are incredibly low, as expected from a biased source trying to downplay the effects of Palestinian terror. 2.55.156.87 (talk) 11:46, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
- Do you have a reliable source that provides different numbers? “WarKosign” 15:12, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
- The numbers are incredibly low, as expected from a biased source trying to downplay the effects of Palestinian terror. 2.55.156.87 (talk) 11:46, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
Biased
editThis article has a heavy bias in which the defenders(Palestinians) are being worded as the offender during a conflict. It needs to be made clear that Palestinians are merely defending their native lands, while violent immigrants from Europe and Eurasia are occupying ane stealing their ancestoral lands. 27.55.95.26 (talk) 19:37, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
- WP:RGW sums up your "arguments". This article describes Palestinian tеrrоrism against Israel, not the historical status of Palestine. 212.3.150.201 (talk) 17:14, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
Contrib on unverified information
editThis contrib by @Cloud200, referring to the Al-Ahli_Arab_Hospital_explosion, wrongly claims that it was definitely Hamas behind it. Surely this must be reverted while this is not yet verified? Oneequalsequalsone (talk) 16:59, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
- I did not use the word "definitely", the wording reflects reporting by Guardian. Feel free to change to more cautious wording but exactly the same source and similar wording is used in Al-Ahli_Arab_Hospital_explosion article. Cloud200 (talk) 18:59, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
- The Guardian did not report that it was a Hamas rocket. They are reporting what Israeli officials are trying to sell. It's not definitively clear who is responsible so why would you include it in here? Oneequalsequalsone (talk) 21:00, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
- It's not "what Israeli officials are trying to sell". The current evidence is composed of Al Jazeera videos of the rocket, Palestinian photos and videos from the hospital lot and eventually IDF aerial photos. These independent pieces of evidence are all consistent with the Hamas rocket version and provide zero corroboration for IDF airstrike version. I very much recommend reading the article on the hospital explosion itself, as it discusses the evidence in depth. And since it's also being discussed by a number WP:RS, it's also fully justified here, because there will be never a "definitive" answer as Hamas will never admit such failure. Cloud200 (talk) 06:40, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
- By the same token I can find a number of investigations by WP:RS (Channel 4's video for one) that point towards the Israelis as the likely perpetrators.
- Regardless, if the cause of the explosion still considered disputed in the main article, why attribute it to one side here? See 2022_Nord_Stream_pipeline_sabotage Oneequalsequalsone (talk) 09:54, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
- Happy to adjust the wording, but how does the current wording differ from the current lead in that article: "There is evidence that the explosion was caused by the failed launch of a Palestinian rocket laden with fuel, with the majority of independent experts and analysts stating that the damage is more consistent with a fireball from a rocket than an Israeli bomb." Cloud200 (talk) 10:38, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
- That sentence you quoted doesn't reflect the sentiment in the article's talk page, that there is no consensus about who did it, and it seems to be removed. See Talk:Al-Ahli Arab Hospital explosion#Time to start saying it was a Palestinian rocket? . I think it's not WP:NPOV to claim one side did it when it's not clear yet Oneequalsequalsone (talk) 01:03, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
- Happy to adjust the wording, but how does the current wording differ from the current lead in that article: "There is evidence that the explosion was caused by the failed launch of a Palestinian rocket laden with fuel, with the majority of independent experts and analysts stating that the damage is more consistent with a fireball from a rocket than an Israeli bomb." Cloud200 (talk) 10:38, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
- It's not "what Israeli officials are trying to sell". The current evidence is composed of Al Jazeera videos of the rocket, Palestinian photos and videos from the hospital lot and eventually IDF aerial photos. These independent pieces of evidence are all consistent with the Hamas rocket version and provide zero corroboration for IDF airstrike version. I very much recommend reading the article on the hospital explosion itself, as it discusses the evidence in depth. And since it's also being discussed by a number WP:RS, it's also fully justified here, because there will be never a "definitive" answer as Hamas will never admit such failure. Cloud200 (talk) 06:40, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
- The Guardian did not report that it was a Hamas rocket. They are reporting what Israeli officials are trying to sell. It's not definitively clear who is responsible so why would you include it in here? Oneequalsequalsone (talk) 21:00, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
- Came here to say this. Current wording gives the impression that it was almost undoubtedly due to a failed rocket, when it is definitely not that clear. 149.248.103.115 (talk) 04:06, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, there is no reason to include unconfirmed/speculative information. Iskandar323 (talk) 07:19, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
- I'm not sure what you mean here. It is very well reported by RS that a number of credible sources other than Israel have determined it to be a failed rocket fired by Palestinian militants (PIJ, not Hamas, IIRC). There are also other reliable sources reporting determinations that it was an Israeli attack. We should report what is in the RS, and if that means reporting that there have been determinations both ways, then that is what we do. We certainly don't pin it as an Israeli attack or a Palestinian failure on their own without stating what is in the RS, that both are currently suspected. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 15:15, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
- We have sources that have speculated about it being a misfired rocket. Without physical evidence, there will unlikely ever be more than speculation. Iskandar323 (talk) 20:18, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, I'm aware of the facts as they stand, I said them myself after all. That doesn't answer my question. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 21:28, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
- We have sources that have speculated about it being a misfired rocket. Without physical evidence, there will unlikely ever be more than speculation. Iskandar323 (talk) 20:18, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
- I'm not sure what you mean here. It is very well reported by RS that a number of credible sources other than Israel have determined it to be a failed rocket fired by Palestinian militants (PIJ, not Hamas, IIRC). There are also other reliable sources reporting determinations that it was an Israeli attack. We should report what is in the RS, and if that means reporting that there have been determinations both ways, then that is what we do. We certainly don't pin it as an Israeli attack or a Palestinian failure on their own without stating what is in the RS, that both are currently suspected. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 15:15, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
Title of article
editPlease update the title Palestinian rocket attacks on israel to Hamas rocket attacks on Israel.
Calling it palestinian is assigning blame to all 2,2M people in Gaza. This is default racist narratives. Please assign accountability specifically to the ones who have committed the rocket attacks which is namely Hamas. Stackerp (talk) 22:20, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
- Have a look at WP:EDITXY for the best way to present edit requests. Rockets are fired by multiple armed Palestinian groups, not just Hamas' military wing, so assigning all of the rocket attacks to Hamas would be inaccurate. If you have a suggestion that takes this fact into account, you can make that suggestion and extendedconfirmed editors will consider it. Sean.hoyland (talk) 00:45, 29 June 2024 (UTC)