Talk:Pakistanis/Archive 1

File:Jinnah port.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Rubbish article

This article explains nothing about the features that make-up the Pakistani people in reality but rather, like many other poorly written and referenced articles on Pakistan, seeks to establish a fabricated and non-existent Pakistani link to the so-called "Greater Middle East" and "Central Asia" as primacy over its clear and obvious subcontinental racial and linguistic (over 75%) identity which makes-up the overwhelming majority of Pakistani people.

Punjabis, Seraikis, Sindhis, Mohajirs, Hindkowans, Brauhis, Kashmiris etc are all Indian subcontinental people and make-up at least 80% of Pakistanis. Baluchs are the only people inhabiting Pakistan that are also found natively yet in the remotest corner of Middle East (southeast Iran). Pashtuns are historically Afghans and are the only Pakistani people that straddle Central Asia (Afghanistan) and the Indian subcontinent.

Secondly, Zoroastrianism has no presence among Pakistani ethnic groups and never has. There is not a single archealogical site anywhere in Pakistan that has been positively identified as Zoroastrian, let alone Persian (The World of Achaemenid Persia: The Diversity of Ancient Iran: I.B.Tauris: 2010). Trying to draw a Pakistani connection to Zoroastrians and Persians is preposterous in light of the zero historical and archealogical evidence for this. The only references to a Zoroastrian-Persian mark left on modern Pakistan come in the form of some Greek accounts (the Alexander histories) of Persian victory and supremacy against the "Indian hill-men" (modern Peshawar valley) and some other petty Indian tribes. OTOH the only Persian sources are inscriptions left behind by Darius the Great that allude to a Persian army crossing into India and defeating a number of Indian petty kingdoms down along the Indus towards Sindh, which were then subordinated as tributaries to the Persian Kings. There were no settlements however, or any establishment of Zoroastrianism. This itself is shown in the corpus of Zoroastrian texts that make-up the Zend-Avesta which gives a detailed account of the lands considered to be "Iranian/Aryan" and "Zoroastrian". What constitues modern Pakistan falls far away outside of these Iranian-Zoroastrian lands and is in fact derrided by the Zoroastrian clergy as lands inhabited by daeva (demon) worshippers (ie, the Brahmans and their followers who once inhabited modern Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa were chided by the Zorastrian-Persian clerics in their literature). Not to mention the fact that the Persians never proselytized Zoroastrianism outside of the Iranian lands or among non-Iranians with the exception of Armenia (This is a well known fact of Achaemenid and Sassanid history). Zoroastrians entered the subcontinent only in the 10th centuary CE as refugees and that was to western India (Gujarat) by the sea route. They have maintained a distinct identity from subcontinentals ever since as "Parsis".

All in all, this article like all the other wikipedia articles on Pakistani people/history, rather than seeking to inform and present facts/truths, reads like just another bizarre and vain attempt by some insecure Pakistanis who wishfully want to relate themselves to Persians/Middle East/Central Asia when in fact over 80% of Pakistanis are brown subcontinentals that speak Indic languages and who do not resemble Middle Eastern or Central Asian peoples in any way whatsoever, whether racially or culturally. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.4.184.70 (talk) 13:13, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

The above comment is typical of angst-ridden Indian nationalists who cannot countenance the notion that Pakistanis do not define themselves as purely Indian. The fact remains that the region that is now Pakistan has indeed been influenced by Central Asian groups that have settled on the territory (as has North India by the way), and it is also an agreed upon fact that Pakistan is indeed geographically straddling three different regions (Central Asia, Middle East, and South Asia). So what is there to rant about? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.177.49.78 (talk) 23:06, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

i would like to remind this indian guys that all three Big Khans of Bollywood whoo resides in india does not categorise themselves as indian rather they call themselves as afghans. even Punjabis and Kashmirirs of india likes to be called themsleves as part of Central Asia rather India. [a karachi guy] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.141.250.242 (talk) 10:49, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

I agree with the original author of the first comment. I suggest renaming this article to "Pakistani Identity" or "Pakistani Nationalism" (or at least set the tone towards that). I also think that we should use accurate, factual terminology rather than political/national propaganda. Pakistanis are essentially Indians who have separated politically in 1947. I understand due to to decades of propaganda, wars, animosity, etc, Pakistanis would rather want to believe they are and always have been a separate "nation" from India in terms of ethnicity, history, etc, but that is simply not true. Linguistically, historically, and culturally, there is more diversity within each country than between them, rendering the general (non-political) differences between the countries moot. And finally, let's not forget that a large segment of Pakistanis are Muhajir people (They are Indian Pakistanis, similar to how we have Irish Americans, Pakistani Canadians, Chinese Indonesians, etc.) Waqqashanafi (talk) 19:45, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Replacement of Main Image with Image Array

Image Array has many benefits over Static Image. It can be improved, the images can be replaced with better ones, and it features enhanced usability and readability.

The choice of personalities featured is based on diversity (in fields and eras), achievements, influence and prominence. Here is my rationale for each and every one of these personalities:

• Muhammad Ali Jinnah - Founder of Pakistan, no question over it!
• Liaquat Ali Khan - First Prime Minister, one of the Founding Fathers; covers the domain of early politicians.
• Akhtar Hameed Khan - Top Development Scientist. His Wikipedia article speaks for him. With consensus, can be replaced with a personality of the same caliber related to the field of Education, Human Development or Human Rights.
• Abdus Salam - Country's only Nobel Prize Winner. Covers the domain of Science and Technology.
• Mahbub ul Haq - Top economist, the man behind Pakistan's economic boom in the 60s. Covers the entire domain of Economics, Banking and Finance. With consensus, can be replaced with a policy maker or administrator of the same caliber.
• Benazir Bhutto - First Prime Minister of an Islamic Country. Covers her father Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, late 20the century politicians and the domain of women in public sphere.
• Amanat Ali Khan - Covers the domain of Performing Arts. I had Waheed Murad/Mehdi Hassan/Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan/Noor Jehan in mind but their photos were not freely available.
• Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy - Country's first and so far only Oscar Winner! Featured by TIME Magazine as one of the 100 most influential people in the world.
• Ayub Khan - Covers the domains of Field Marshal, Presidents, Dictators and Armed Forces.
• Imran Khan - World Cup winning cricket captain. One of the most prominent Pakistanis in the world. Also covers the domain of 21st century politicians.
• Shahid Afridi - Cricket is the most prominent feature of Pakistan, and Afridi is the face of modern cricket. With consensus, can be replaced with an iconic sportsman of late 20th or 21st century.
• Hadiqa Kiani - Woman and a Female singer. Can be replaced with another 21st century female/male singer/actor with consensus.
• Jahangir Khan - Ruled the world of Squash for a decade. Deserves it! Can be replace with a Hockey Legend.
• Abdul Sattar Edhi - The face of philanthropy in Pakistan.
• Anwar Maqsood - Covers the Domain of Intellectual, TV Personality and Poet. Can be replaced with Tariq Aziz (TV personality), Zia Mohyeddin, Faiz Ahmad Faiz, Mustansar Hussain Tarar, Ashfaq Ahmed or Mumtaz Mufti or a similar personality if photo is available.
• Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry - Made it to TIME 100 Most Influential people list, twice. Arguably the most influential man in the domain of Law.

Any edits to this array without discussion and consensus on this talk page will be reverted. -- Fasi100 (talk) 08:38, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Seems fair enough :) Some ethnic balance would also be good. At least one photo of a personality from each major ethnic group of Pakistan would be nice. At the moment, I see no representation of Saraiki, Kashmiri and Baloch figures in the infobox. So in any future discussion on the choice of images on this talk page, ethnic balance is one point that might also need to be noted. Mar4d (talk) 10:40, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! Good point about ethnic balance. I've found two people Attaullah Khan Esakhelvi and Qudrat Ullah Shahab who will cover Saraiki and Kashmiri ethnicity. Qudrat Ullah Shahab can replace Anwar Maqsood and Attaullah Khan Esakhelvi can replace Amanat Ali Khan, so that the current balance of fields don't get disturbed. --Fasi100 (talk) 11:11, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Seems fine. So, just getting into the demographics, here's the ethnic breakdown we've got so far: Gujaratis (M.A. Jinnah, Abdul Sattar Edhi), Punjabis (Liaquat Ali Khan, Abdus Salam, Mahbub-ul-Haq, Hadiqa Kiyani, Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry), Urdu-speakers (Akhtar Hameed Khan, Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy), Sindhi (B. Bhutto), Saraiki (Ataullah Esakhelvi), Pashtuns (Jahangir Khan, Imran Khan, Shahid Afridi), Hindkowan (Ayub Khan), Kashmiri (Qudrat Ullah Shahab). All the major ethno-linguistic groups covered, great work :) We're just missing a Baloch personality here. Mar4d (talk) 12:21, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

famous non-Muslim Pakistanis

Granted Pakistan is a Muslim state but there are more than a few famous non-Muslim Pakistanis whose pictures could be uploaded into the image box. Ardeshir Cowasjee, Bapsi Sidhwa, Deepak Parwani, would all be perfect candidates.Hurvashtahumvata888 (talk) 00:26, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Indian people which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 08:59, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Belizean people which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 13:00, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Collage

AHLM13 requested on my talk page to make a collage for Pakistani people, similar to that in Bengali people, English people, British people, French people etc. I'd be more than happy to do that. But, first I need to know that there is an agreed upon list of people with (Wikimedia Commons) images for them. If concerned editors of this page make a decision I'd prepare one. If there is not enough response, I may provide you with a collage with current people in the infobox after a week or two. nafSadh did say 20:24, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Friend User:Nafsadh, the last one is perfect. After a week create this one. Thanks. -- AHLM13 talk 13:46, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Zahiriyyah are Sunni

On the section for religion zahiri was listed as seperate to Sunni, I just thought id correct that before its undone IslamicrevialistmMujahid (talk) 01:16, 13 September 2016 (UTC)