Talk:Pacific Meridional Mode

Two sources on which I have questions

This source discusses correlations between PMM and precession and this one between PMM and insolation but I am not entirely certain exactly what the correlation is, as the sources discuss PMM in standalone paragraph with no clear connection to high/low precession/insolation values. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 20:06, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Pacific Meridional Mode/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: MarioJump83 (talk · contribs) 10:45, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

I will try to review this as I can do. I am new to reviewing GA, so any assistance could be helpful. MarioJump83! 10:45, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

First assessment (the final one will be not in the table form)

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	This article has been done by someone from WP:GOCE, as such this article passes this criteria.
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	The article is very clearly within the MOS guidelines. Regarding embedded lists, the information presented are better suited to a list.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.	Certainly passed.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	The large majority of this article are from academic sources.
	2c. it contains no original research.	Nearly all, if not all of this article are sourced to the reliable sources, and for all purposes this article passed.
	2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.	Thanks Chidgk1 for help.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	The coverage are definitely outstanding, I don't think that there is much out of scope.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).	Some parts of the article might be too complicated, I am not very sure.
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.	The POV from this article is neutral from what I have seen.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.	Based on the edit history of this article, this is definitely stable for many reasons.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	Pass.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.	Two of these images are relevant to the topic.
	7. Overall assessment.	This article is close to passing all GA criteria, but I have some slight concerns with two of these criteria, which is possible complications. and plagiarism/direct copies from the sources to the article.

That's my assessment. This is based on my quick review of the article - please note that I will probably miss some of them. I don't give any suggestions regarding the GA, it will be done by LightandDark2000. MarioJump83! 03:50, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Changed some. MarioJump83! 22:47, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

Second Opinion by Femkemilene

• I was wondering if it's accurate to say it's an oscillation? The article states instead: The PMM appears to be mainly a consequence of stochastic (random) climate forcing in the extratropics. A lot of these stochastic modes of variability used to be called oscillations, but no evidence of dominant frequencies / cyclicity was found, leading to an awkward name (have been reading about the Atlantic multidecadal oscillation recently, where current evidence does not support internal cyclic behaviour). I checked the source by Stuecker, which consistently calls it a mode, which is a term encompassing both stochastic and oscillatory modes of variability. The Amaya source doesn't call it an oscillation either. FemkeMilene (talk) 20:58, 5 March 2021 (UTC). The definition of a

  I don't think it is but we have climate oscillation but not climate mode. I'll replace the names. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:49, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

  I've made climate mode a redirect to Climate variability and change, just like climate oscillation is. :). FemkeMilene (talk) 11:01, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

• The Pacific Meridional Mode is a form of coupled variability between the latitude of the Intertropical Convergence Zone (ITCZ) and north-south sea surface temperature (SST) gradients in the subtropical Pacific Ocean -> Don't understand. How can something be a variability between a place and a gradient?

  Well, it's "coupled" not "between". It's variations in SSTs and ITCZ latitude that are connected. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:49, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

• not sure about glossing decadal as 10-year, as that implies an 'exact' frequency, instead of a broad range of frequencies. Maybe tens of years instead?

  Removed it. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:49, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

• The role of ENSO at inducing PMM changes is little studied -> prose?

  Rewrote this a bit. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:49, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

• The second sentence will be easier to understand if you focus either on the positive or negative phase. It's positive phase is characterised by weaker trade winds in the north-east Pacific ..., and visa versa for its negative phase

  True, but it would miss out a lot of information that way. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:49, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

  I don't think it would, considering you end the sentence with visa versa (or the reverse). I don't have the mental capacity to follow these sentences as you need to remember that positive came first for another three effects. And I've probably got more experience reading these type of sentences than most of our readers. FemkeMilene (talk) 11:04, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

  Rewrote this a little. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 15:55, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

• does the first figure portray a positive or negative phase?

  Positive; added it. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:49, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

• The PMM is not the same thing as the El Niño-Southern Oscillation (ENSO) is it necessary to say this? I'm assuming this article will mostly be read by postgraduates that now and so is a tropical oscillation.

  Eh, I prefer to not make too many assumptions about who will read this. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:49, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

  Agree with not assuming readership too much. For the people that don't quite know what ENSO is, would they jump to the conclusion they are the same? If you mention how they are related, you already state they are not the same, so I maintain this is redundant. FemkeMilene (talk) 11:11, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

  I wouldn't assume that people will read it that way. And I am sure I've seen publications which specifically differentiate between the two. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 15:55, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

• I think the article uses to many lists. The last list element of the triggers section seems to be an effect rather than a trigger: Simon Wang, Jiang and Fosu (2015) proposed that ENSO triggering can occur through an Indian Ocean-West Pacific-PMM route, but the mechanism is unclear

  I see, but I don't think these things lend themselves well to a prose only presentation unless 2021 sees additional sources published with which some of the dot points can be expanded to paragraph length. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:49, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

• The PMM can induce mainly warm events -> The PMM induces mainly warm events

  Corrected. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:49, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

• (CP Niño or El Niño Modoki) -> unnecessary jargon?

  Nah, I would not assume that everybody knows that CP Niño = Modoki Niño. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:49, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

  I'm not saying they know; but I don't think Modoki El Nino is a familiar phrase at all, so I feel it's the introduction of jargon that's not used further in the article. FemkeMilene (talk) 11:12, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

  Well, "Modoki" is the name under which I first heard the concept, thus I'd actually disagree on this point. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 15:55, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

• Tuo, Yu and Hu (2019) discovered that PPM modulated the activity of mesoscale ocean eddies in the South China Sea, and its southern hemisphere equivalent,[54] until 2004 when the relationship largely ceased -> are statistical flukes due? That list is already quite long.

  Good question, I've seen some studies referencing these findings so I think they are. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:49, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

• LightandDark2000; the good article criteria only ask for a broad coverage, not a comprehensive coverage. I think it clearly meets that criterion, might even come close to the FA criterion. FemkeMilene (talk) 08:55, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

  Aye, I am pretty sure this one is comprehensive. The main reason I am sending it to GA rather than FA is because a lot of the sources are "hey, I found a PMM teleconnection!" rather than review articles; that's why there is so much in-text attribution and I am not sure if either is OK at FA level - none of the FAs I've written is sourced like this. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:49, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Third Opinion by LightandDark2000

I will also review this article. In addition, I will try to grab one of the other senior editors with more of a background in meteorology (such as Hurricane Noah) to ensure that this article is accurate and comprehensive in coverage. LightandDark2000 🌀 (talk) 23:46, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

I'll try review this article next weekend, when I have more time. Anyway, I'm glad to see that one of the other reviewers feels that this article is quite comprehensive. I always look for comprehensive coverage and solid writing, even in GA candidates. LightandDark2000 🌀 (talk) 19:10, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Lead

• Link "coupling" to coupling (physics).

  That does not discuss the climatology aspect at all. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

• during spring Change to "during the spring".

  Why? I am pretty certain that "during spring" is also correct. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

• during winter trigger PMM modes Change to "trigger PMM modes during the winter".

  Done without the "the". Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

• 2014–15 El Niño event Change to "2014–16 El Niño event". Can link directly to the article.

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Concept

• Link the first mention of subtropical to subtropics.
• Link heat flux.
• and thus strongest interaction with PMM during these seasons. Change to "and thus strongest interaction with the PMM during these seasons."
• distinct from the El Niño-Southern Oscillation (ENSO) Add a comma after "(ENSO)" (before the ref tag).

  All done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Triggers

• Link "extratropics" to Geographical zone.

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

• North Pacifc Gyre Mode is currently a red link (dead link). Either create an article for it or unlink the phrase.

  Redlinks are not banned in GAs. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

• Link "atmospheric pressure" to barometric pressure.

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

• that is strongest during winter. Change "that is strongest during winter" to "which is strongest during the winter".

  No, per my preceding comment on "the". Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

• being cooled/warmed Change to "being cooled or warmed".
• Link anticyclonic to anticyclone.
• These spread eastwards Change to "These spread eastward".
• resembling that of PMM. Change to "resembling that of the PMM}.

  Done, save for these I've commented on. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Growth and demise

• causing SST changes that peak in spring Change "peak in spring" to "peak in the spring".
• NPO variations during winter, Change "during winter" to "during the winter".
• increased insolation during spring facilitates the growth of PMM events. Change "during spring" to "during the spring".
• facilitate the development of PMM. Change to "facilitate the development of the PMM."
• In turn, PMM facilitates Change "PMM facilitates" to "the PMM facilitates." Consistency is important.

  Did the PMM but not seasons. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Effects

• associated with PMM are: Change "with PMM" to "with the PMM".
• "Tropical cyclone" should be lowercase.
• 2013–2015 North Pacific marine heatwave The link for this phrase is very problematic, and must be corrected. It currently links to "The Blob", a 1958 film, which is completely unrelated to the subject matter at hand. I assume that the intended target is The Blob (Pacific Ocean)? If so, please correct the link.

  Done to here. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

• "2019 North Pacific marine heatwave" is another red link. Since there is no article for the subject on Wikipedia, it should be unlinked.

  Again, redlinks are not disallowed. However, I am not sure that this one would meet WP:N. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

• Link subtropical anticyclone to Horse latitudes.

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

• Unlink "ocean eddies", since it is a dead link. Then, link "eddies" to Eddy (fluid dynamics).

  No, per my preceding comments on redlinks. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

• lead to high sea level Change to "lead to high sea levels".

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

• induce anticyclonic atmospheric circulation anomalies over China characterized by descending air over eastern and ascending air over northern China.. This phrase has two problems. It is a run-on, and it is also confusing in part of the sentence. Add a comma after "anomalies over China", and change "over eastern" to "over eastern China".
• Whether PMM Change to "Whether the PMM".

  Done to here. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Precipitation

• Add a comma after "Yellow River Valley".
• Link "North Pacific High" to North Pacific High.
• Link "Southwestern USA" to Southwestern United States.
• Link "Northeastern United States" to Northeastern United States.
• while during summer low atmospheric pressure over the northern and high atmospheric pressure over the eastern United States favour precipitation in the Midwest. Another phrase with run-on and ambiguity issues. Change to "while during the summer, low atmospheric pressure over the northern United States and high atmospheric pressure over the eastern United States favor precipitation in the Midwest." Also, link "northern United States" to Northern United States, link "eastern United States" to Eastern United States, and link "Midwest" to Midwestern United States.
• Amazonian South America and PMM. Change "and PMM" to "and the PMM."
• Bolivian climate and PMM. Change "and PMM" to "and the PMM".
• ENSO variability by the PMM Add a comma after "the PMM".

  Done to here. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

ENSO

• PMM events in spring Change to "PMM events in the spring".
• during summer and autumn Change to "during the summer and autumn".

  No, per my previous comments. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

• and westerly wind bursts and also modulate sub-surface ocean heat content associated with El Niño development. This is another run-on. Add a comma after "wind bursts".

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

• They further suggest PMM might influence the seasonality of El Niño events, as PMM events occur mainly during spring. Change to "They further suggested that the PMM might influence the the seasonality of El Niño events, as PMM events occur mainly during the spring."

  Partly done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

• events although there is no clear consensus on this association. Add a comma after "events" (before the citation tag).

  I can't find that. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

• may allow PMM to induce Change "may allow PMM" to "may allow the PMM".
• 2015 El Niño Change to "2014–16 El Niño", and link to 2014–16 El Niño event.
• appears to be due to varying SST patterns The wording could be improved a little. Change "due to" to "caused by".
• while in the "West PMM" Add a comma after this phrase.

  Done to here. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Tropical cyclones

• relative humidity and wind shear Add a comma after "wind shear".
• Link "typhoon genesis" to tropical cyclogenesis.
• between west Pacific accumulated cyclone energy and PMM.There are a few problems here. Change "west Pacific" to "West Pacific", for consistency. Add "(ACE)" after "accumulated cyclone energy", since this is a common abbreviation for this term. And also change "PMM" to "the PMM."
• The earliest typhoon genesis is also earlier Change "is also earlier" to "also occurs earlier".
• not by the eastern subtropical Pacific, Change to "by the eastern subtropical Pacific manifestation".
• in these years. Change to "in those years."
• Link "hurricane" to tropical cyclone.

  Done to here. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Similar phenomena in other oceans

• Atlantic Meridional Mode This subject does not have an article and is currently a red link. Unless it will get an article in the near future, it should be unlinked.

  Again, redlinks are an issue. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

South Pacific Meridional Mode

• cold tongue Link this subject to Walker circulation instead, where the same subject is covered. There shouldn't be any red links in the article.

  See above. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

PMM variations

• The activity of PMM Change "of PMM" to "of the PMM".
• to volcanic eruptions such as the 1257 Samalas eruption Change to "to volcanic eruptions, such as the 1257 Samalas eruption,".
• and the South China Sea. Change to "and in the South China Sea".
• and caused it to shift westwards Change "westwards" to "westward".

  Done to here. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

PMM and anthropogenic climate change

• Liguori and Lorenzo (2018) proposed the effect would become noticeable by 2020. I won't require this for a GA promotion, but since it's currently 2021, has this prediction been verified yet? I think it would be a good thing for readers to know.

  I don't think we know yet whether this is correct. Let's wait until Christmas, when I make my yearly update. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

• during the few decades preceding 2020 and according to Liguori and Lorenzo (2018) may explain an increase in ENSO activity until 2100, This is a run-on. Change to "during the few decades preceding 2020, and according to Liguori and Lorenzo (2018), may explain an increase in ENSO activity until 2100,".

  I've split this sentence. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

• Change "2015-2016 El Niño" to 2014–16 El Niño event. You can link directly to the article.
• delaying the onset of warming there. What kind of warming? Oceanic warming? I assume that this phrase refers to oceanic warming. Please be more specific here.
• the onset of Central Pacific El Niño events Add a comma after "events", before the reference tag.
• the increasing trend to central Pacific El Niño events Change "increasing trend to" to "increasing trend of".
• Link 21st century.

  Done to here.

Name and use

• Unlink "Atlantic Meridional Mode", since the subject does not have an article.

  Unlinked as it's linked before. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Images

• I won't require this change for a GA promotion, but since this article is very technical in nature, I think that it could use some more images and/or diagrams. It would really help the readers who aren't professional meteorologists.

  That's being discussed on the talk page - it's not as easy as it sounds to make images for this topic. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

These are all of the issues that I have identified. While the article is quite comprehensive and well-written, there are a handful of issues that need to be resolved before it can be promoted to GA status, including an severe hyperlink issue. LightandDark2000 🌀 (talk) 23:18, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

• User:LightandDark2000 mostly done, but I have to disagree on redlinks and seasons - redlinks are perfectly OK and seasons don't get articles, last I checked. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

According to red link policy, red links should be present only if new articles will be created for those subjects. If new articles will be created for those topics in the near future, then I guess I can tolerate them. Otherwise, I think that this article is ready. I also got an informal review from Hurricane Noah off-wiki, and he believes that the article does not have any major issues. I'll let MarioJump83 make the call to promote this article, since he was the original reviewer. LightandDark2000 🌀 (talk) 03:46, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Probably not "in the near future" for lack of time but I am certain that the redlinked topics meet WP:N. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:46, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Comment by Chidgk1

MarioJump83 Can you tick off above that there is no plagiarism or copyvio? I did not find any on a quick look with the Earwig tool. If not can you explain any concern or question? Chidgk1 (talk) 15:57, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

Yeah. MarioJump83! 22:47, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

Final assessment

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

There is no much other than this article passes the 3b criteria since the first assessment, so I don't have any comments other than this passes for GA. MarioJump83! 03:54, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

More graphics might make this easier to understand

As someone who has never heard of the subject before I found this article very encyclopedic but rather hard to understand. I wonder if more graphics, or even an animated graphic, might help.

I am not artistic myself but for a few graphics in the past I have explained what I thought was needed to Commons:Graphic Lab and they have drawn a very good graphic. For example for the simple English article about the automobile Ian Furst drew an excellent schematic https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile#/media/File:Simple_Electric_Car_propulsion_diagram.svg Chidgk1 (talk) 08:06, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

@Chidgk1:A lot more graphs would certainly help, but we'd need some pretty precise ideas as to what they would show. Which questions would in your opinion be best answered by a graph? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 11:11, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

@Jo-Jo Eumerus: Please correct me if I have misunderstood as I am completely new to the subject. But if I understand right this is a variation over the year, a snapshot of which is shown in the existing diagram. So how about if you ask the graphics wizkids to make an animation showing how it "develops during the winter months and spreads southwestward towards the equator and the central and western Pacific during spring" as you descrbe? Presumably they would just need to vary the direction and length of the wind arrows and the color of the sea under your instructions? And the animation would name the changing months of the year. Also when I first glanced at the diagram I thought the arrows were the actual wind speed - but now if I understand right they are a variation on the average wind? I had to look up the meaning of "regression pattern" but I am not sure how to best describe that so people understand. Chidgk1 (talk) 18:19, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

It's a good understanding. I haven't seen a source that shows a graphical progression, though, so I am not sure whether someone could make a graphic. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:40, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

There is a queue of requests for the graphics wizards so it may take a while. But once they are on the case I have found them very good. I did not find anything very close but there are a couple of existing animations which you might refer to when explaining what is needed (see right)

NASA Finds 2011 Ninth-Warmest Year on Record (hd video)

and

Wind vectors and monthly average CO2 concentrations in 2003

and there are a lot of video diagrams on Wikimedia and UK Met Office on Youtube. As you have such a good understanding of the subject I am sure with the aid of the article and perhaps a few rough sketches you could explain what might be useful. When you say "and the reverse during its negative state" is that simply a matter of reversing the arrows and colors on the diagram? If you are going for FA in future I think it would be worth a try. Chidgk1 (talk) 06:43, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Sure, but we need some template images. I am thinking Figure 1d-g, Figure 1 and Figure 2 could be useful not I am not sure on their copyright status. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 15:07, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

I suspect by the time the animators have done their stuff the result will be sufficiently different from the template images for copyright not to be a problem. When the final version is put on Wikimedia Commons it could be described as "adapted from ....." in order to credit them. Chidgk1 (talk) 14:36, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

I've put such a request in. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:03, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Source for possible inclusion

...here. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:34, 4 January 2022 (UTC)