Talk:Organ transplantation in Israel

Way forward for article

The article is about aspects of organ transplants including donation. We can either open up the scope of the article by renaming it Organ transplants in Israel, or we can move the donation aspects to Organ donation, the trafficking aspects to Organ trafficking, and leave The Aftonbladet accusations to the 2009 Aftonbladet Israel controversy article and turn this page into a redirect to Organ donation. SilkTork *^YES! 21:57, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Is there any objection to renaming this article Organ transplants in Israel, and moving forward with developing it? SilkTork *^YES! 08:57, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I second the motion to move. "Transplant" is a larger and more inclusive (hence more WP:NOTABLE subject) than "Donation". It makes no sense to have a "donation in Israel" page, but not a "transplant in Israel" page." NickCT (talk) 19:00, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. The article is clearly not a medical article about transplants in Israel. The main notable issue in this country is that there is a relatively low percentage of organ donors due to, until very recently, lack of respect to the main Jewish religious laws. There is virtually no issue about transplants.--Shuki (talk) 20:07, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I think you're missing the point. The point about a low percentage of organ donors is not unique - that's a world wide issue. It's because there is a world wide shortage of donors that illegal organ harvesting takes place (and organ harvesting, which is alleged to have happened in Israel, is not the same as donation), and also why organ trafficking takes place (which Israel is more notable for - and organ trafficking is not the same as donation). And organ harvesting, organ trafficking and organ donation are all to do with organ transplantation. What do you know about organ transplantation in Israel? Would you like to know a bit more? Which is the only hospital in Israel to do organ transplants for children? What transplants can be done in Israel? Liver? heart? Etc. That you are not aware of or are interested in these issues is a poor reason for wanting to limit this article. Unless there is a viable objection to expanding this article, I will move it tomorrow and start expanding it. SilkTork *^YES! 08:40, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Some sources to build the article - Organ transplants in Israel under the anatomy and pathology law, Rabin Medical Center performs over 70% of all kidney transplants in Israel and is considered a renowned leader in the field of all organ transplants, Schneider - the only hospital that carries out children's organ transplants in Israel, Organ Transplants From Living Donors (Kidneys) - Israel 2003, 2008 - 146 organ transplants were performed in Israel, Rabin Medical Center — where 70% of organ transplants in Israel are performed, For the first time in Israel, something that has rarely even happened in the world has occurred: a father donated to his son two organs – a kidney and part of his liver, Professor Shapira - pioneer of organ transplants in Israel, regulate activities related to organ transplantation, liver not heart, [1], [2], [3], [4], SilkTork *^YES! 08:53, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Halachic organ donations

How does this even work? Doesn't Judaism strictly prohibit any body modification during life or after death? I wonder the dogmatic acrobatics it took for this, how does this work?

I remember as recently as a couple decades ago if you asked your rabbi could you be buried in a Jewish cemetery if you had tattoos he would say no way. But nowadays most rabbis will say it's no problem for a Jew to be buried in Jewish cemetery even if he is tattoed. So I guess with the "halachic" organ donation it's kinda similar principle huh?...

Religion.... not even once.

Rosenbaum

Rosenbaum is an American citizen, and the source says "many of Rosenbaum's donors had come from Eastern Europe". To use a single case of an Israeli donor to push a lengthy paragraph about Americans dealing in organs from East Europe, in an article about transplants in Israel is point-of-view pushing. You need to establish consensus on this page first. GoGoBot2 (talk) 18:55, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Just for the record, Rosenbaum is an Israeli citizen, as the source I've included confirms. Eyal Rubin (talk) 05:37, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Eyal - Israelis dealing in organs in the US is not Organ transplantation in Israel . Could you discuss the changes you want to put in the article here, rather that edit-warring them back into the article? GoGoBot2 (talk) 16:55, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Actually, Rosenbaum was part of this article long before any editing on my part; I only undid subsequent removals of this material. In my additions, I updated the passage by including relevant information about his conviction (and his citizenship, when that question arose), which have been sourced. I would guess the original reason why he was put here in the first place (and not by me) was because he has a network of contacts who work through Israel (and reach into other countries), which would explain why the victims are Israeli. In that sense, I believe it makes sense to include him in a discussion about organ trafficking in Israel. Eyal Rubin (talk) 05:31, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

the stuff you keep on adding includes things like "In 2004 a South African organ trading operation providing American, Iranian and Israeli recipients with organs from Brazilian, Russian and Romanian donors was raided by authorities in South Africa and Brazil, who arrested 15 members of the ring including a recipient and a donor. The donors were paid $10,000 for a kidney, while the recipients were charged $120,000" - it has nearly zero relevance to this article. What am i missing (talk) 21:36, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

if you actually check the history, you will find that this paragraph about South Africa was there before I did any editing and I never touched that paragraph. I only added some references to the paragraphs about Rosenbaum. and yet you attempt to use this an excuse to remove everything in the page pertaining to organ trafficking. Nice try, but it won't work. If you have issues with the paragraph you cite, then by all means make adjustments to it. But you have no justification for the removal of the entire section without any consensus. Eyal Rubin (talk) 06:01, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

It does not matter who inserted this material the first time - it is not relevant, as explained. You are repeatedly inserting a paragraph that talks about 'a South African organ trading operation providing American, Iranian and Israeli recipients with organs from Brazilian, Russian and Romanian donors was raided by authorities in South Africa and Brazil' into an article about organ x-plats in Israel. This is point-of-view-pushing of the worst kind. If you want it included, you need to get consensus for its inclusion. I see none at this point. What am i missing (talk) 17:33, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

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