Talk:Orestis (region)

Removal of Petiffer, Mallios, Pliakou, Palagia on geography

This edit [[1]] removed several papers by top graded scholars on the subject with the excuse that they are POV. I'm afraid this kind of activity isn't cool.Alexikoua (talk) 01:45, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

No wonder in the map here [[2]] p. 14 the 'Orestis' legend begins from SE of Prespa. Definitely there is nothing POV on this widely sourced information. I also wonder why the mention of Voion and Grammos was also removed.Alexikoua (talk) 01:58, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Just checked all available bibliography: most of the modern scholarship agrees that Orestis stretched slightly to the west from the modern Greek-Albanian border: a south Prespa-Tsankon-upper Devol border was proposed by Papazoglou (several modern scholars agree on that), while Karamitrou puts the limit on Maliq-Prespa.Alexikoua (talk) 02:08, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

As always, User:Alexikoua is pushing his POV narrative into the article by selecting some dubious sources, while adjusting other sources with WP:SYNTH content, despite contrasting with top notch scholars like Worthington, King, Lane Fox, etc. Geographically, Orestis obviously can't have comprised the region of Korça (which is located beyond the Pindus Mountains, Pelion (Illyria), and the Tsangon Pass), and northern Prespa (which was a region between Illyrians and Lynkestians). Only southern Prespa could have been part of Orestis, as stated by Pettifer & Vickers 2021, which Alexikoua WP:CHERRYPICKED omitting the full information provided by the source and selectig only one preferred part. We have already addressed this issue in Talk:Lynkestis. – Βατο (talk) 02:21, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

You need to avoid wp:NPA violations and stay focused on scholarship. By the way there is a map of Orestis by yet another academic paper: [[3]]. There is too much detail on the Orestis settlements in the Devol-Korce regions it's time to work on it.Alexikoua (talk) 02:28, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Orestide: L'Orestide n'était pas limitée au bassin du lac de Kastoria et à la vallée du haut Haliakmon , comme on l'a longtemps cru 1 . Une inscription découverte il y a peu de temps dans l'îlot d'Ag . Achilleios de la Petite Prespa la Petite Prespa nous a révélé l'appartenance de cette contrée à l'Orestide2 , et corroboré l'hypothèse selon laquelle la petite vallée de Biklisht -Poloske sur le haur Devoli en faisiat aussi partie. La limite naturelle de l'Orestide du côté de la Dassarétide et de la Paravée était formée probablement par le puissant massif du Gramos et la chaine du mont Morava qui s'élève entre la vallée de Poloskë et le bassin de Korcë ( Koritsa ) jusqu' au defile de Tangon au Nord. I assume you do not dissagree with the above quote. There are at least 7 modern scholar that are convenient with that version. The Devol-Poloske basin is located south of Tsangon pass as such all this makes 100% sense. Alexikoua (talk) 02:46, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Also stay focused on the topic: Worthington, King, Lane Fox, etc do not contrast anything. They don't provide detailed description of the Orestes region: nevertheless even in case they provided that's not an excuse to remove information that doesn't support a specific POV.Alexikoua (talk) 02:52, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

As already stated above, the inclusion of little/southern Prespa in Orestis is in agreement with bibliography, so no problem with your latest additions. – Βατο (talk) 09:25, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Papazoglou states that the inclusion of south Prerspa makes Devol area also part of Orestis. Devol is an integral part connecting Argos Orestikon to Prespa. This stays in agreement to mainstream scholarship.Alexikoua (talk) 02:51, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Well according to Karamitrou-Mentesidi (archaeologist and specialist in w. Macedonian ancient history) the western border of Orestis is in Maliq and Korce region. The source states that Kamenica is located in the Orestis region [[4]]. I don't believe that there is any issue adding that information here.Alexikoua (talk) 21:24, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

You added that information, which is completely irrelevant to the subject of this article, just to push POV. We have already discussed this in the comments above, Oresis didn't go beyond the Pindus mountains. Don't insist. – Βατο (talk) 21:46, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Removal of Karamitrou-Mentesidi

Medicine in antiquity is quite an interesting subject. The specific section will be soon expanded. The information is fully sourced and I can't see a reason why to hide information related to that part of the Orestis.Alexikoua (talk)

You want to push the POV narrative that the Korçe basin was within a Macedonian or Epirote region, but it will not happen. You have already tryed it in the past without succeeding. Macedonia and Epirus were geographically delimited by the Pindus. The article states about that schoar's WP:EXTRAORDINARY opinion: Karamitrou-Mentesidi is in favour of an excessive western expansion on lake Maliq and the region of today's Korcë. Find and add information that concerns the ancient region of Orestis, not the Kamenica tumulus and the Korçe basin. – Βατο (talk) 22:09, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Extraordinary is according to you personal (Illyrian-maximalising) POV. Karamitrou-Mentesidi is a top graded scholar and archaeologist and fully meets wp:RS and he is widely cited in bibliography in positive terms. There is nothing against inclusion of works of that quality. Also be carefully before launching wp:BLP accusations again. Ig you want to remove non-specialized works and wp:EXTRAORDINARY begin with Petiffer-Vickers.Alexikoua (talk) 23:10, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Don't cast aspersions, if you persist I will report you for personal attacks. This is the last warning. The view that a Macedonian or Epirote region stretched beyond the Pindus mountains, the Tsangon Pass and Pelion (Illyria), incorporating the Korçe basin is WP:EXTRAORDINARY, and it is specifically criticised as "excessive" by other sources. The relevant information is already included into the article with due weight. – Βατο (talk) 23:44, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Alexi, you removed well sourced material by a source specifically focusing on the geography of the area, expressly including Orestis. I suggest to revert yourself. – Βατο (talk) 11:03, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

User:Alexikoua is making unconstructive editing into the article. Firstly he requested the specific quotes that mentioned Orestis falsely claiming that the information is nowhere to be found, and when I provided the quotes he reworded the content as he liked, ignoring what Vujčić 2021 actually concludes in his paper. – Βατο (talk) 00:37, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Pelion was not Orestis. The source you added is about Pelion, not Orestis. There is no reason to clutter the article with irrelevant info. WP:COATRACK. Khirurg (talk) 05:07, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

That's what I've tried to explain to her, but even worst is that this (irrelevant) addition was not supported by the inline citation.Alexikoua (talk) 23:12, 30 January 2024 (UTC)