Talk:Order of battle, East African campaign (World War II)
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How about expanding this? edit
Excellent work! I think the next move is to add a section on the B+C formation at the height of hostilities (say March 1941 at the time of the second Keren offensive) which would give a better idea of the opposing forces. Not sure how much this would change the Italian oob. Clearly no new forces but they would have been moved to different locations. Stephen Kirrage talk - contribs 09:59, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
- I like the way you are thinking. And it could be done for the British and Commonwealth forces. My problem is this: I would like to show the relative Italian forces. Unfortunately Italian documentation goes to almost zero (or worse . . . propaganda) once the fighting begins. In general, it appears that the Italian forces are in a constant state of disolving starting in late 1940. Two examples: 1) I have been unable to find anything detailed concerning De Simone in southern Italian Somaliland. What happened to him? 2) Gazzera starts off with a force of about 40,000 men in May and by July he surrenders his last 7,000 or so to the Belgians. Granted, the Italians were completely cut off from re-supply, Amba Alagi had already fallen, and the colonial troops probably had no reason to stay . . . but that is an extremely high defection rate. Maybe best to just leave the Italians out of it. Mkpumphrey 14:16, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
- I also want to find something informative on British and Commonwealth armor during the campaign. Mkpumphrey 14:17, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
- I've found a mention of 4 I tanks from 7 RTR being involved with 4 Div in taking Agordat. Continues that 5 Div at Barentu "...(did not have) any of the I tanks which contributed so much to the fall of Agordat". As to the Italian formation, Compton Mackenzie has no oob but does keep mentioning Italian unit names. Many are in your oob, some not! For instance in the scene setting for Keren he talks about the 1st Italian Colonial Division (5th & 44th Colonial Brigades), 11th Brigade, 42nd Brigade, 6th Brigade, 2nd Brigade, 11th Grenadiers Regt, 10th too. Can't find 44th Brigade...Stephen Kirrage talk - contribs 15:39, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
- 7th RTR could be it. But have you ever heard of "B Squadron 4th RTR"? (6 or 8 Matilda IIs at Agordat and Keren.) It is "starting" to come together for the British and Commonwealth Order of Battle for early 1941. However, I am not sure that I am up to creating so many new "commander articles." Unfortunately I am also discovering a few areas that need correction. My French sources are worse than my Italian, but I think a different guy commanded the Free French battalions in Briggsforce. Concerning Italian "colonial divisions," the standard Italian division had two regiments with three battalions each. Mussolini did this to make more divisions. BUT . . . in East Arica a "colonial divsion" often included three "colonial brigades." Also, the regiments from the two "Italian divisions" in East Africa, the Savoy Grenadiers and the Hunters of Africa, are often referred to as "brigades." Much more work to do on all of this. Mkpumphrey 01:53, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
- I've found a mention of 4 I tanks from 7 RTR being involved with 4 Div in taking Agordat. Continues that 5 Div at Barentu "...(did not have) any of the I tanks which contributed so much to the fall of Agordat". As to the Italian formation, Compton Mackenzie has no oob but does keep mentioning Italian unit names. Many are in your oob, some not! For instance in the scene setting for Keren he talks about the 1st Italian Colonial Division (5th & 44th Colonial Brigades), 11th Brigade, 42nd Brigade, 6th Brigade, 2nd Brigade, 11th Grenadiers Regt, 10th too. Can't find 44th Brigade...Stephen Kirrage talk - contribs 15:39, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
- I also want to find something informative on British and Commonwealth armor during the campaign. Mkpumphrey 14:17, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
B+C Tanks edit
Eastern Epic describes 7 RTR fighting with 4th Indian Div in the Western Desert at Sidi Barrani in December 1940. In January 4th were shipped to Sudan and were "followed by 7th RTR and a battery of 6-inch howitzers, one of which would in some months' time fire as decisive a shell as howitzer ever fired" (I guess at Amba Alagi). 7 RTR are described as having I tanks which in the parlance of the day would have been Matilda I or II. There is no specific mention of 4 RTR. However, Slim's 10th Brigade attack on Gallabat in November 1940 (before the arrival of 7RTR) is described as being supported by "a squadron of the Royal Tank Regiment (six cruiser and six light tanks)". Stephen Kirrage talk - contribs 09:30, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Sudan Defence Force edit
Eastern Epic says there were 6 motor machine gun companies in the SDF and that 3 were attached to Gazelle Force and for the advance into Eritrea 3 were attached to 9 Brigade. The oob shows this but there are also 2 companies listed as Corps troops under Platt. Can anyone shed some light on this? Stephen Kirrage talk - contribs 10:56, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Belgian Congo - Force publique edit
Hello,
The Force Publique was involved in the battles in East Africa, so could they be added please? Unfortunately, I do not know which precise units were involved, or I would have added them myself. (Brigade Piron (talk) 13:58, 29 October 2012 (UTC))
Source request edit
@J-Man11: excellent additions but can you cite your sources pls? Regards Keith-264 (talk) 15:12, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
Recent edits edit
Copied the OOB in Shores 1996 but realised that the existing material included other detail so tried to add the newer source rather than replace the section in toto. I may have made a few mistakes....Keith-264 (talk) 14:01, 8 April 2020 (UTC)