Talk:Operation Backfire (FBI)

Started article

The article is currently unbalanced and unformatted, as i've only started it. I will improve it soon. Rockpocket 02:07, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Rod Coronado / Auburn 3

Operation Backfire is not related to Rod Coronado. So far he has not been connected to the cases in the North West except that he is a friend of at least one of the defendants. So far there have been 14 indictments in operation backfire. The Auburn or Sacramento 3 are also not part of Operation Backfire. The targets of Operation Backfire include an alleged "super cell" of the ELF called "The Family" Dumpster 05:24, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Read the sources, the sypathetic media are grouping them all together under the one operational name, even if the FBI are not. It might be prudent to note that, but since its not entirely clear what the FBI considers the name to cover, i figured they should all be mentioned. Rockpocket 05:28, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

The Indymedia article does not mention the Auburn 3 and they were not mentioned by the FBI in the January press conference. They are all part of "the Green Scare." Dumpster 06:04, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

I moved the Auburn 3 / Rod info over to the new "Green Scare" pageDumpster 06:26, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Fair point, i added back just a brief mention of the other indictments for context (with the media sources that group them together). Mainly because the criticism seems to encompass the whole range or arrests. I agree that they are better served being described in detail in the green scare article though. Rockpocket 06:56, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Sources

I'm concerned about naming two people as informants on the basis only of indybay.org, particularly as the link goes to an article showing photographs of the individuals. Can we find a better source for this? I've made it invisible in the meantime. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 02:40, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

The information about informants and who they are comes from attorneys or witnesses in the case who named them in open court some of the court preceedings were reported on in corporate or mainstream news outlets [1] but sometimes the only people covering the story are writing independant outlets like Indymedia or Bombs and Sheilds. Both of those sites have had people in court. Dumpster 03:40, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi Dumpster, I appreciate the difficulty, but nevertheless, we have to use very good sources for allegations as serious as this. For example, we have no evidence that the photographs on that website really are photographs of the people we name. If the mainstream press hasn't written about these people, then by definition they're not notable enough to be mentioned in Wikipedia. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 07:13, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree, plus some of the info on sources are coming from lawyers for the accused. Its a very dangerous game to report this as fact without mainstream sources reporting it, especially with feeling running so high in the activist community. Rockpocket 07:27, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

"If the mainstream press hasn't written about these people, then by definition they're not notable enough to be mentioned in Wikipedia."

Massively disagree. It's a matter of record that the prosecution evidence is coming from informants. The mainstream media (certainly in the UK, no reason to suspect the US is different) are not likely to pursue that angle of a story, all it takes is the FBI to ask them. That doesn't make those people "not notable". They are the prosecution and a huge part of Operation Backfire. If we don't include relevant facts like the "Auburn 3" being part of a 4-person group when arrested then we aren't telling the whole story.Chaikney 18:32, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

The problem is, even the more (though still not very) mainstream media sources are reporting that the defendants attorney is naming the informants. I don't believe they are a reputable source for the facts, as its based on supposition. The prosecution have, as i understand it, said there are informants but not named them. If there is a reliable source that quotes the names as a "matter of record" from the prosecution, then by all means it should be added. But until then, i don't believe we should name individuals. Rockpocket 04:50, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

One of the informants came forward in a recent Rolling Stone article: The Rise and Fall of the Eco-radical Underground by Vanessa Grigoriadis (RS issue 1006). There are also pictures of the accused in the article. Maybe it's time to add names? --66.69.141.112 03:30, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

RS seems like a decent source, anything in there could be reported here, i would have thought. Rockpocket 05:44, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

PETA

In this edit, User:Martial Law added PETA to the See Also section, with the edit summary:

(→See also - Incl. PETA, since they contribute money, support to the Animal Liberation Front)

It is impossible to contribute money to the Animal Liberation Front. There are no presidents, there are no leaders, there are no organizations. The Animal Liberation Front is not a physical body. Now, you can donate money to ALF Support, who are a seperate organization, who support political prisoners. One can also donate to individual prisoner support funds, which I believe is what User:Martial Law ios talking about. File:Icons-flag-scotland.png Canæn File:Icons-flag-scotland.png 05:31, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually he is probably talking about their contributions to the legal defence funds of those who were charged with commiting criminal acts in the name of the ALF, Specifically Rod Coronado (which, come to think of it, may actually be the same thing Canæn is referring to). While that is tantamount to supporting the ALF for all intents and purposes, i personally don't think that see also link to PETA is that relevent here, but if no-one else protests, i'm not going to argue it. Rockpocket 07:10, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

That's exactly what I mentioned, Rockpocket. I don't see the point of the link, but don't really care. File:Icons-flag-scotland.png Canæn File:Icons-flag-scotland.png 06:20, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

A recent HBO documentary claims the FBI has infiltrated PETA to take out this "Animal Rights" org as a terrorist org. I've seen it. 205.240.144.214 (talk) 21:38, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Fair use candidate from Commons: File:Rebecca J. Rubin.jpg

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External links modified

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External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 3 external links on Operation Backfire (FBI). Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100409123308/http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/speeches/mueller012006.htm to http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/speeches/mueller012006.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100817222138/http://www.fbi.gov:80/page2/jan06/elf012006.htm to http://www.fbi.gov/page2/jan06/elf012006.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080828214105/http://sandiego.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel06/sd022206.htm to http://sandiego.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel06/sd022206.htm

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Eric McDavid

His article states he was sentenced and released - but the page here says he is due to be sentenced. So the information needs to be updated. I would do it but I'm not experienced enough to know how to rewrite it or add citations. Dursland (talk) 07:52, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

Info Box Structure

I don’t think the structure for a battle or war seems appropriate for this page Brownhorse0 (talk) 05:25, 27 December 2019 (UTC)