Talk:On Her Majesty's Secret Service (novel)/Archive 1

Archive 1

James Bond Theme

The James Bond theme song was written by and has always been credited to Monty Norman. This is the second time it's been changed. The John Barry Orchestra has only been credited with playing the tune, Norman is the one credited with writing it. K1Bond007 16:20, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)

I'm not referring to the James Bond Theme. I'm referring to John Barry's alternate action theme, entitled the '007 Theme', which appeared in most of the films Barry scored until Moonraker (it allegedly made a return in Die Another Day, but I can't find it). The best example I can think of it being used is in You Only Live Twice, when Bond is in Little Nellie, but before he meets the bad guys, when the James Bond Theme takes over. The 007 Theme was used as a minor action theme, with the James Bond Theme reserved for more major set pieces, and the OHMSS instrumental was used in a similar role in OHMSS: it plays during the skiing and the escape in Tracy's car, with the James Bond Theme reserved for the gunbarrel, introducing Bond at the start of the film (when the OHMSS version is used), and Bond and Draco's assault on Piz Gloria (where the Dr. No version is used). Hig Hertenfleurst 22:17, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Ok, I know what you're talking about, but are you sure it's titled '007 Theme'? I think it's just a small medley he incorporates into his Bond soundtracks, I wouldn't call it the '007 Theme', especially since someone like myself will get it confused with the James Bond theme. According to the You Only Live Twice soundtrack, the scene you specifically pointed out was listed as "Little Nellie" (you can look it up and give it a listen on Amazon.com). I don't think it's in Die Another Day either, if it is I don't recall it at all. K1Bond007 22:51, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)

I'm quite sure that it exists as a seperate piece of music and was used quite deliberately several times as an alternative action theme. Trying to think of another one off the top of my head, and I can't: second-hand info from a message board tells me it's in From Russia With Love (as Bond and chums steal the Lektor from the Russian consulate), Thunderball (during the final underwater sequence), Diamonds Are Forever (during the final battle on Blofeld's oil rig), and Moonraker (during the second boat chase, not the one with that idiotic gondola). As for somewhere where it's definitively identified, it's on the From Russia With Love soundtrack ( http://home.triad.rr.com/smrainey/JB02Russia.htm ), apparently titled '007'. And finally, concerning possible confusion with the James Bond Theme, surely the best thing to do is to create an entry for the 007 Theme? I'd do it right now if I could only track down some decent information on the sodding thing. Hig Hertenfleurst 00:48, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Ok, making a new entry on the 007 Theme and it differing from the James Bond theme is ok. As long as we make it known theres a difference. K1Bond007 01:13, Sep 18, 2004 (UTC)

Savile Row suit

Where did we get the info that this suit "cost[ing] him most of the money he had"? Various biography sites for Lazenby indicate that he was already a wealthy playboy before he got the gig. (Supposedly earned £100,000 in 1967, equivalent to a little over £ 1 million per annum today.) Securiger 14:08, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Alternate Edit

In addition to the normal sequential version of OHMSS I remember seeing a version using a flash-back narrative. Does anyone else have info on this? Fritz Freiheit 15:57, 2004 Nov 22 (UTC)

Ah yes, the American TV-edited version with an ersatz Bond narrating. IIRC, it started with Bond's escape from Piz Gloria and was rather heavily chopped. It deserves a mention: maybe I'll add something later. Hig Hertenfleurst 21:05, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Lazenby's departure

I'm certain I heard or read somewhere -- possibly on the DVD making-of documentary for OHMSS, or in one of John Cork's books -- that Lazenby actually announced his departure from the Bond role even before OHMSS was even released which may or may not contradict the letter of intent story (which is mentioned in The Bond Files). I don't want to add it to the article without a source, but I'm certain I heard this. Can anyone provide a source? 23skidoo 01:36, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I was under the impression he did it during filming because I can recall the initial script had Tracy not dying and instead that was going to be carried over for the PTS of Diamonds Are Forever. When he announced he wasn't going to do it anymore (prior to the film's release) then they changed it to have the origianl Fleming ending restored. Lazenby did sign a letter of intent or he verbally agreed to the 7 film deal and I'm pretty sure he was paid a first installment. Cork's Legacy probably has this, but unfortunately I don't have the book so I can't check. K1Bond007 02:43, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

According to The Bond Files, Broccoli planned to film Moonraker after OHMSS. I wonder if that included the Tracey carry-over? (Actually, doing Moonraker at this point would have made sense since it was in the midst of the Apollo moon landings. I'm willing to bet the bit in DAF with the moon buggy was probably a carryover from the original plan. 23skidoo 04:50, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't think so. That sounds kinda farfetched considering Moonraker has nothing to do with actual space exploration. It's about a missile defense system. It's widely acknowledged that the idea of the Moonraker film was influenced by Star Wars. It's also doubtful Moonraker would follow OHMSS because they had just previously (YOLT) done a film involving space, if it were going to involve space. I'm 99% sure it was Diamonds Are Forever where the PTS was gonna be Tracy dying [1]. The idea of Moonraker might have been a thought at one time (this wouldn't obviously be the first time or maybe even the 5th time at that point in history about what was going to follow). I'd say the Bond Files is wrong. Honestly, if you haven't heard about it before and it's not coming from an official source or John Cork, I would question it's authenticity. K1Bond007 05:10, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

For what it is worth, Diamonds Are Forever does include rockets in space. Asa01 (talk) 22:08, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Technicolor

I've just finished watching it : what a brilliant James Bond movie ! except Lazenby is not really convincing as 007, the plot is absolutely perfect. I just had one question, though : The credits say the film was shooted in Technicolor. I thought Technicolor was not used after 1960. 1. Can anyone explain this ? 2. Do you think it is worth putting this (not very relevant) fact on the article ?

Thanks,

King mike 20:59, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

According to the Technicolor article, The Godfather was released in Technicolor. It was falling out of favor by the late 60s but continued to be used into the 70s. I don't think it's worth mentioning in the article. 23skidoo 21:41, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Extended version / Lost scene?

When this was re-released on VHS in the UK in the early to mid 90s, I'm sure there was much trumpeting of it being an extended version, with a lost scene restored. The DVD makes no mention of this, and there are no deleted scenes included... Anyone know what the "lost" scene was? Is it missing again from the DVD, or is it now just included in the film as standard and doesn't warrant a mention anymore? --Cardinal Wurzel 18:16, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't know what you're specifically talking about to be honest. One scene in the script that was filmed and ultimately cut had a SPECTRE agent spying on Bond when he met with Sir Hillary Bray. Bond chases him and kills him. Apparently it was too violent. Another edit, I suppose you could be referring to, is the ABC cut which shuffled the movie around. You can read about it here. K1Bond007 19:35, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

That's what I thought as well. Maybe there once was a UK release of the "narrated" 2-part version of OHMSS that featured narration by a guy who sounded nothing like Lazenby. To my knowledge the SPECTRE agent chase sequence has never surfaced; if it isn't included on the upcoming Special Edition DVDs, I'll surmise it no longer exists. 23skidoo 20:32, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I asked on IMDB too, and apparently it's the photocopying scene in the office. Thanks anyway! --Cardinal Wurzel 08:28, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard of that being a cut scene. To my knowledge it's in all the versions of the film. Maybe some TV print omitted the brief view of the Playboy centrefold? 23skidoo 13:26, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

No, on further googling it seems that the scene was omitted from lots of UK prints and TV screenings. The 1995 British VHS was the first time that scene had been included in a video release of the film in this country. --Cardinal Wurzel 20:44, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

That's weird. Any idea why it was cut? I don't recall it being particularly objectionable or anything. 23skidoo 00:57, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Just pacing I imagine. It does seem kind of superfluous - Bond doing some photocopying isn't the most action-packed moment in the series :-) --Cardinal Wurzel 06:20, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I guess such a photocopier device was quite new at that point in time back then. 2A02:8070:6382:ECE0:4021:B6FA:BCA7:4C2 (talk) 14:45, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

The name

The name is fairly clearly a reference to OHMS, but people outside the UK and Canada probably don't get it. Should we should mention it somewhere? Marnanel 13:58, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Suggested Move

Since most the the other James Bond novel articles are titled name of book (novel), shouldn't this article be On Her Majesty's Secret Service (novel) because there was a movie too. Emperor001 (talk) 02:24, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

If no one responds soon, I will move this article. Emperor001 (talk) 20:10, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:OHMSSnovel.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 15:07, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

The motto

Orbis non sufficit seems to originate with Philip II as a motto of the Spanish Habsburg Empire; although the immediate source seems most likely to have been Zoé Oldenbourg's 1946 novel Argile et Cendres, published in English as The World is Not Enough. Perhaps a reference to Temptation of Christ in the Desert? Nuttyskin (talk) 15:24, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:On Her Majesty's Secret Service (novel)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sarastro1 (talk · contribs) 22:49, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

I will review this in the next day or two. --Sarastro1 (talk) 22:49, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

I have done some minor copyediting which you may feel free to revert if you are unhappy or I've messed up. --Sarastro1 (talk) 22:31, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Lead

• "Fleming wrote the book whilst the first film in the Eon Productions series of films, Dr. No, was being filmed nearby." May be better to say where it was being written and filmed rather than leave it hanging.

• Done

• "what is known as the "Blofeld trilogy", which begins with Thunderball, had an interlude with The Spy Who Loved Me and concluded with You Only Live Twice." If TSWLM is not part of the trilogy (and a trilogy should be three books, really.), perhaps leave it out here. Just because it was published between the other books does not mean the trilogy must include it. Unless I'm missing something. But it is not mentioned in the main body.

• Done

• "Bond finds him thorough the College of Arms in London and, after meeting him and discovering his latest plans, attacks the centre where he is based, although Blofeld escapes in the confusion." A bit vague here: I initially read this as meaning he found him within the College of Arms, and I think it could be specified where he finds him.

• Done

• "Bond also meets and marries in the story": Meets and marries who? I would also suggest framing it: "Bond meets and falls in love with X during the story. The pair marry at the end of the story but Blofeld kills Bond's wife hours after the ceremony". And I think we should name her here.

• Done

• I think, per WP:LEAD, the lead section needs more from the article: the background, characters and critical reception should be covered in more detail. --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:06, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

• Done - I think!

Plot

• "Tracy' to her friends": A little informal. Maybe simply add "known as Tracy" or even "(Tracy)" when she is introduced.

• Done

• "the only way to save his daughter": From?

• Done

• College of Arms "lead": Probably not important for the article, but how did they know that it was Blofeld? It suggests he was not so hard to find!

• A slightly grey area in the book - seems the FO had a watch out for him and one of these had been seen by Sable Basilisk who put two and two together... It's one of the many areas in the Bond stories you don't ask too many questions or it all falls apart!

• Grenade: The tossing of one grenade seems a little detailed for the plot section, unless I am missing its significance.

• Done. It sort of made sense if there had been a lot of other stuff in there, but it would have been too detailsed for the plot summary, so I've taken it out.

Background

• "Fleming later changed the title after being told of a nineteenth-century sailing novel seen by Fleming's friend Nicholas Henderson in Portobello Road Market.": Why? What was the book?

• On Her Majesty's Secret Service! I've clarified it in the test; the only other non-Fleming book I can see in the British Library is an 1878 novel by an unknown author.

• "Fleming did make mistakes in the novel, however, and after Bond ordered a half-bottle of Pol Roger Champagne, Fleming's friend Patrick Leigh Fermor pointed out that that it was the only champagne at the time not to be produced in half-bottles.": Not sure about the "and" here. Given that it says "mistakes" and only one is listed, either add another or perhaps say "for example".

• Done

Reviews

• "noted that the two minor grammatical errors he spotted "is likely to spoil no one's enjoyment": Plural errors, singular is.

• Done

• "Whilst The Sunday Times said that "James Bond is what every man would like to be, and what every woman would like between her sheets",[12] the critic for The Times considered that after The Spy Who Loved Me, "On Her Majesty's Secret Service constitutes a substantial, if not quite a complete, recovery."": Not sure about whilst as it implies a contrast that is not there.

• Done

• "Having said that, he sets out to argue that point anyway": A little too much like editorialising for me.

• Done

• "Kirsch also believed that "with Fleming, then we do not merely accept the willing suspension of disbelief, we yearn for it, we hunger for it."": Something not quite right: "then" doesn't seem to fit.

• Done (using the power of "..."!)

Adaptations

• "With the novels films in a different order to the books": Does not quite sound right.

• Done

• "Even so, the previous film, You Only Live Twice, had Blofeld and Bond meeting and this was ignored for the plot of On Her Majesty's Secret Service": To clarify, this means that the film ignored the fact they met in the previous film and followed the plot of the book?

• Done

General

• The background section suggests this is the first time "007" is used, as the term's origin is explained. Is that the case? If not, why is it in the background. If so, maybe make it explicit.

• I've taken it out altogether, just to keep it nice and clean

• Also, for the benefit of those who only saw the films, perhaps make it clear that Bond had not previously met Blofeld face to face?

• Done

• Images fine apart from the 007 symbol. Apart from wondering if it should be there (see above), I see from the license that you created it. This seems odd if it is the chap's signature. Perhaps make clear on the image page how you made this and what it is based on.

• Will do. It's based on Dee's own glyph, which you can see here, for example

• Unable to do spot checks on this one, but no concerns.

Another very enjoyable article. Just a few points to clear up before I pass and I'll place it on hold for now. --Sarastro1 (talk) 22:31, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks very much for a good review - and for the copy edits, which I have left intact as they have only strengthened the article, not weakened it. I've addressed all the points you've raised and hope that my subsequent edits have covered all your concerns, but please let me know if I've missed anything or if I've misunderstood. Thanks again! - SchroCat (^ • @) 09:04, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

All good, and I will pass now. Just two minor things which are pretty much just my opinion and do not prevent this being a GA.

• I think "However, having said that..." suggests an editorial view analysing the writer of the review, but you may with justification disagree, so no problem if you prefer the current wording.

• I've re-phrased, so it should look less slanted now. - SchroCat (^ • @) 05:38, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

• The information about Blofeld having never met Bond in person is unreferenced; this is not really a problem as it is a plot point, which makes me wonder would the information be better in the plot section to clarify that he would not have recognised Bond when they met? Again, you may disagree and if so, no problem. --Sarastro1 (talk) 22:11, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

• I've left it where it is, but sourced it - hope that's OK! - SchroCat (^ • @) 05:38, 5 December 2011 (UTC)