Talk:Ocean Sea

Searching for ocean sea in WP. Now here: [1] --euyyn 18:15, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, I created this article because I think there's worthy encyc. info about the origin of the name (oceanus et al; when did civilization come to consider it a sea rather than a river, etc.), about the shift of the word Ocean from the name of a sea to a word to describe "big seas" (I believe this is related to the discovery of the Pacific Ocean), and maybe more.

I came to know the name in the Columbus article, where it's noted he was named "Admiral of the Ocean Sea".

I'm searching english and spanish wikipedia for the name, as well as the internet and physical encyclopedias I have access to. It's just I have not so much free time. --euyyn 16:38, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

The Ocean Sea - a page of its own

"Ocean Sea" definitely deserves a page of it's own. It constituted the unknown half of the ancient world! Today we think "ocean" means large body of water so that "Ocean Sea" seems redundant, but "ocean" actually means "outer". So "Ocean Sea" means "Outer Sea" (as opposed to Mediterranean Sea which means Midland Sea). The Ocean Sea was the name given by the ancients to the salt water realm that surrounds the three continents then known. The Portuguese pioneered the Ocean Sea route to Asia that rounded Africa and paralleled the southern coast of Asia, a very long trip, that was already shown on Greek & Roman maps from antiquity. Some people argued that the Ocean Sea was not so wide that it couldn't be crossed directly westerly from Europe to Asia. Christopher Columbus actually made the attempt. --MarkFilipak (talk) 17:18, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

...but 'ocean' actually means 'outer'."

No, it doesn't. I'm also not sure where you're going with this. The article is currently about the water surrounding the continents (your "outer sea", which the Greeks actually conceived of as a freshwater river, not a "salt water realm"). There are rumors of Phoenicians who circumnavigated Africa, which the Greeks and Romans knew of and retold, but neither of them ever made the trip. Some of their maps have an ocean passage and many others (particularly the most influential such as Ptolemy) didn't: they turned the Indian Ocean into a giant lake. Columbus made his attempt based on two layers of misunderstanding: first using the wrong numbers and then using the wrong units on top of that. The people who could do their math properly actually had a good approximation of the world's size and figured he would starve on the trip, but he found the trade winds and ran into something along the way. — LlywelynII 00:17, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

You say that "Ocean Sea" doesn't mean "Outer Sea", that "ocean" doesn't mean "outer". You may very well be right. Of course I refer to its etymology: Roman oceanus from the Greek ωκεανός (transliteration: o̱keanós), not the modern meaning of "ocean". This brings up the entire issue of how did modern terms gain currency. Consider this:

Many writers used the term "Atlantic" (derived from the titan Atlas) to refer to the entire Ocean Sea, whereas others called this water body the "Outer Sea," "Great Sea," or simply "Oceanus." -- Source: Dividing the ocean sea, Martin W Lewis, Geographical Review; Apr 1999, pg. 188.

I can certainly understand your reaction from a modern perspective. So, what do you think "ocean" meant to the ancients? Was it simply the name of the son of Uranus & Gaia without any prior meaning? This is an honest and humble question because I admit I don't know. For what it's worth, I've written to Dr. Lewis requesting his opinion. --MarkFilipak (talk) 05:02, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

I should add this: I just read what was originally written for the "Ocean Sea" stub. I think it's a good example of what's wrong with Wikipedia. "

Ocean Sea was the original medieval name of the Atlantic Ocean.

First, "Ocean Sea" should be in quotes as it refers to the words, not the body of water. Second, it was not the original name of the Atlantic Ocean. "Ocean Sea" goes back to ancient Greece (or maybe even Phoenicia) and referenced all globe-circling oceanic waters beyond the Mediterranean, not just the Atlantic. How does this reflect poorly on Wikipedia? Without responsible editors, such notions as: "'Ocean Sea' was the original medieval name of the Atlantic Ocean" can too easily gain purchase and are then very hard to dislodge.

Consider this:

"'World Ocean' doesn’t have any real historical resonance, whereas 'Ocean Sea' reveals a lot about the history of geographical conceptualization."

-- comment by Dr. Martin W. Lewis, Senior Lecturer in International History at Stanford Univ., in a private email. --MarkFilipak (talk) 20:31, 17 March 2015 (UTC)