Talk:Numayrid dynasty

Map

Hi Ro. Would you have the time to create a map that shows the Numayrid Emirate at its peak? This is traditionally dated to 1058–1060 when the Numayrids under Mani' ibn Shabib controlled Harran (capital), al-Raqqah, Saruj (controlled by Mani's brother Hasan), al-Rahba, al-Qarqisiyah, Qal'at Ja'bar, Qal'at Najm. A minor branch of the dynasty also controlled a certain fortress called "Sinn ibn Utayr" or "as-Sinn", which was supposedly near Samosata, presumably south of that Byzantine-held city.(D.S. Rice (1952) "Medieval Ḥarrān: Studies on Its Topography and Monuments, I", p. 77). Or would it be preferable to have a map that dates from Waththab ibn Sabiq's reign (1107–1019), in which case we would add Edessa (controlled by Waththab's cousin Utayr), but not include al-Rahba or al-Qarqisiyah. If you're busy, I can post this request to the Graphic Labs. Cheers friend, --Al Ameer (talk) 21:21, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Numayrid dynasty/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: FunkMonk (talk · contribs) 12:41, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

• I'll take this one, far too long since I reviewed one of your articles! Any chance we'll see you around FAC? FunkMonk (talk) 12:41, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
• I see a bunch of duplinks, they can be highlighted by using this script:[1]

Done. Al Ameer (talk) 19:43, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

• The last sentence under Religion needs a source.

Done. Al Ameer (talk) 19:43, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

• "Qal’at an-Najm (pictured)" The part in parenthesis should be redundant.

You've taken care of this. Al Ameer (talk) 19:43, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

• Any chance the family tree could be recreated in code, so the names can be linked? Perhaps not so important if the people don't have articles.

It could be created in code, but I've never done it. Maybe someone with a little more expertise. But indeed there are no articles for the individual princes and I don't see any being created in the near future. --Al Ameer (talk) 19:43, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

• Sadly, the Qal'at Najm photo was from a blog that doesn't allow commercial use, so I had to nominate it for deletion. Perhaps another photo in its Commons category could be used instead?

Seems the image can be saved anyway:[2] FunkMonk (talk) 19:24, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

I'm glad you were able to clear that confusion about the image. It's a great one and important to the article as it was their last recorded possession. --Al Ameer (talk) 19:43, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

• "nimr, the Arabic word for "leopard"" I thought nimr meant tiger?

I thought so too. I guess its original meaning was for the Arabian leopard, which makes sense since it was native to the peninsula as opposed to tigers. Anyway, this is according to both the source cited and the encyclopedia of Islam entry on "Namir or Nimr". --Al Ameer (talk) 19:43, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

• "this time in association with the Qarmatian movement" could this be briefly explained in parenthesis? Did they belong to the movement originally?

Clarified. --Al Ameer (talk) 19:43, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

• Are there more relevant images that could be used in the article? Perhaps of Qal'at Ja'bar?

Do you still think I should add this image even though we've been able to keep Qal'at Najm? If so, I'll add it. --Al Ameer (talk) 19:43, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Only if you want to add some visual flavour. The relevant section, "Struggle for Raqqa", is empty anyway. FunkMonk (talk) 20:50, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

• "during Shabib's last years, they switched to the Fatimid Caliphate" Mention they were shia too.

Done. --Al Ameer (talk) 19:43, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

• "Also in 1033/34, the city of Harran was restored to Shabib, one year after an uprising by local peasants and aḥdāth (urban militiamen) targeted the Sabian community.[14] The uprising came at the heel of a severe famine and plague." It is unclear how all this is connected. Where the Sabians in power before?

This was a mess. I've clarified it for now. The source doesn't indicate any relation of those events to the Numayrids' return, but I've kept a very concise version for context. --Al Ameer (talk) 19:43, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

@FunkMonk: Thanks for taking the time to review this article. Sorry for the slow-going. I’ve addressed a few of your concerns, will tackle the rest when I’m at my desktop (currently editing with ipad, which isn’t very efficient). I’ll try to leave a detailed response today. —Al Ameer (talk) 15:52, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

That's fine, I still needed to review the rest of the article! Which is now done below. FunkMonk (talk) 13:22, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

• "Mani' died of an epileptic seizure" Seems a very specific diagnosis, how is this known? Is it a modern assumption based on old sources, or did they have terms for it back then?

Good point. I removed "epileptic". --Al Ameer (talk) 19:43, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

• "Writing in 1952, Rice asserts that descendants of the Banu Numayr continued to live in and around Harran and were known as Nmēr, a colloquial form of "Numayr"." Based on what?

Clarified. --Al Ameer (talk) 19:43, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

• "Writing in 1952, Rice" You repeat the year a couple of times, should only be needed a first mention.

Done. Al Ameer (talk) 19:43, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

• Probably a question for Attar-Aram syria, what is the source map for this image[3], and can it be added to the file description?

Attar kindly created this map based on a request of mine either to him or someone else. Anyway, I've added another source and expanded the description. --Al Ameer (talk) 19:43, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

I was thinking more of what the underlying image is, some other image on Commons? FunkMonk (talk) 20:50, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Hey FunkMonk. Sorry, I was away for a while. I see that Al Ameer provided the sources in Commons. I actually counted on the sources provided by Al Ameer in the article to create the map. As for the base map, I took it from this one. Its free to use.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 21:58, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Alright, thanks, that base map should be linked in the source field then. FunkMonk (talk) 22:01, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

@FunkMonk: Thanks again for the review. I've addressed the points above the best I could for now. Let me know if there's anything else. --Al Ameer (talk) 19:43, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Fixes look good, I've added two answers, and will pass once the image issues are done. FunkMonk (talk) 20:50, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

@Attar-Aram syria: Thanks for clearing that up Attar.

@FunkMonk: I’ve added the picture of Qalat Jabar. —Al Ameer (talk) 23:02, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Alright, I will pass now, hopefully Attar can add the link to the base map later. I think it is nice to show the historical buildings mentioned when we are lucky enough to have photos of them. And yikes, seems like its latest owners were ISIL... FunkMonk (talk) 23:49, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Agreed. Thanks for the thorough review FunkMonk. —Al Ameer (talk) 23:57, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• View of Qal'at Najm from the south.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:43, 22 November 2018 (UTC)