Talk:Northumberland/Archive 1

Archive 1

Ancient comments - castles, status, T&W query

I put back in some of the example castles, as well as keeping the link to the full castles list. I felt it was useful to have both - the examples have the immediacy to make people go ooh yes, that's the one in the calendar, Harry Potter, etc, and the list link provides a thorough reference. OK I hope? Nevilley

In 1400 Newcastle was designated the town and county of Newcastle and even in the 1940s-1950s it appeared on official documents as the city and county of Newcastle upon Tyne.I do not know when this changed.Jeandunston

I'm not sure that the Tyne & Wear bit is still right, either! Nevilley 13:31 Feb 12, 2003 (UTC)

Settlements

This section should be a list of the main towns with a link to list of places in Northumberland, which should be more comprehensive. people have been adding every settlement to the main article. anyone mind if I move the list from here to the correct list leaving just a few towns, and any suggestions for the main towns to leave? AndrewMcQ 00:31, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I agree that that the list of settlements should be partitioned so that only major towns are listed in the main article. I propose two criteria for inclusion in the main article 1) population, say, above 3000 and 2) geographical representation, such that there are at least two towns listed for each of the 6 districts. To implement this we need information on the population of the larger towns. Anyone know where to find that? --- RedGiant

The link to the "Fred Reed" Wiki article leads to a different Fred Reed than the one discussed in the article, "Northumberland" in the "people" section -Ragni 18:24 5/11/05

Dubious inclusion of Eric Burdon

It is well documented that Eric Burdon was born in Walker, Newcastle-upon-Tyne and is patently not a Northumbrian.

WTF? Eric was born in 1941, try looking at ANY map of Northumberland in that era and tell me again if he wasn't a Northumbrian!

"Tyne and Wear" metropolitan county council only came into existence in April 1974 and was abolished in 1996. However, It still exists in law unfortunately as a "ceremonial county".Duarcain (talk) 16:09, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Same with Shearer and Sting they were born in Northumberland, and are not only associated with it. Has this been discussed before and is there any reason they are not included in the list ? Jim Sweeney (talk) 16:16, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Sunrise in Northumberland

The picture, very artistic though it might be, has no particular association with Northumberland. It is not a "Northumberland" sunrise, it is just a sunrise - with a tree in the foreground.

I propose that since no clear association with the county is evident or stated, and it does not define typical Northumberland sunrises - the picture is removed. Are there any contrary views please? leaky_caldron 15:05, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree. A landscape painting of a Northumberland scene by a well-known artist would be more suitable. Nesbit 15:30, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Flag of 'Northumberland'

The flag listed here as being as Northumberland, I believe, is that of Northumbria, shared by all of North East England. Is this not the case? One can see the flag on cars around the north east although I admit many people are still ignorant as to what it is, but that's to be expected under Blair who believes the best way to placate people is to deny them their heritage. Should the fact that this flag is more wide-reaching be noted, or am I wrong? Also, the Northumbrian smallpipes are similarly played around the north east. Enzedbrit 22:36, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

There is potential for much confusion about attaching flags to places because both flags and regions shift over time. There are several differently defined regions (e.g., the kingdom of Northumbria, the earldom of Northumberland, the ancient county of Northumberland, the modern county of Northumberland). This is further confounded by the fact that the adjective Northumbrian is applied to the kingdom, the county, and somewhat vaguely and unofficially, the modern North East of England. The flag that was officially adopted by the county of Northumberland in 1951 (before Newcastle was separated off into the newer county of Tyne and Wear in 1974) is a modern version of the banner hung over Oswald's tomb. Not having found visual representations of the flags used for the kingdom, earldom and post-conquest county, all of which encompassed a greater area of the north east, I hesitate to identify the modern flag as representing Northumbria. Any documentary evidence on this would be very welcome. To reference some of this, here is a quote from a website on the cultural heritage of Northumberland:

The Northumberland flag is based on a traditional flag which is probably the oldest known flag design in Britain. The Venerable Bede, England's first historian, records a banner of purple and gold which hung over the tomb of St Oswald, the 7th century king of Northumbria. The flag for this ancient kingdom is now generally regarded as having 8 alternate stripes of red and gold. Later, in medieval times, the colours were adopted by the first Earl of Northumberland. The present pattern was granted to Northumberland County Council as its own banner in 1951. In November 1995, the Council took the historic decision for its own flag to become the flag for the modern day County of Northumberland; and it has rapidly been adopted as a symbol for the County by a wide range of businesses and individuals.

Nesbit 15:44, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

The difference between the Northumberland flag and the Northumbrian flag is that the original saxon Northumbrian flag was alternating purple and gold stripes. The flag of the county of Northumberland has the stripes offset in the middle so that the stripes are "broken". Hope this helps! Buonarotti1961 (talk) 22:14, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

sentence

This sentence is confusing on the first reading: In general, the culture of Northumberland, as with the north east of England, has much more it would seem in common with Scottish Lowland culture than with the rest of England, the two perhaps having more in common with each other in some respects, than with other parts of their respective countries. Please rewrite it. Rintrah 07:14, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I've done that and some other bits of re-writing and adjustment. I hope the results meet with approval.

Bandalore (talk) 07:13, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Bit of a stupid question, but...

does anyone know why it was called Northumberland? It is, after all, nowhere near the River Humber. As it was seemingly created at roundabout the same time as County Durham and the former county of Hexhamshire why wasn't it called Newcastleshire or County Newcastle, etc.? The flying pasty (talk) 17:01, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Its called Northumberland becuase it is North of the River Humber 92.23.119.61 (talk) 18:27, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

See in the article under "History". the historic kingdom was Northumbria and was indeed north of the Humber. Northumberland is sort-of what's left, though it is obviously a lot smaller. There's plenty in the Northumbria article on this. Best wishes DBaK (talk) 20:30, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Announcement: The 2009 Structural Changes in Local Government in England: A Taskforce

1. On 1 April, 2009, a number of changes will occur that will affect a number of counties and districts in England, including some which fall within the remit of your project and/or county.
2. The changes will necessitate a large number of changes to various articles on wikipedia.
3. New articles may have to be written, old ones may have to be changed because they will then describe abolished former districts, etc, and numerous changes will have to be made to templates, category names, and articles about individual settlements to update information about local government.
4. Because of this the Uk Geography Project has set up a specific taskforce to identify the changes to be made and then to coordinate the work of preparing for the changes and then implementing them when the changes occur on 1 April.
5. The name of the taskforce is Wikipedia:WikiProject UK geography/2009 local government structural changes task force or WP:2009ENGLAND.
6. You are invited to join this taskforce to help us all improve wikipedia in these areas by making sure the information is kept updated, and accurate.

Many thanks.  DDStretch  (talk) 21:57, 15 January 2009 (UTC) (on behalf of the taskforce)

Scottish bias in culture section

I've corrected the blatant Scottish bias in the cultural section which was basically implying that Northumberland and Scotland share the same culture. Whilst it is true the lowlands of Scotland do share much culture with Northumberland I feel it was over-played somewhat at the expense of Northumberland's English cultural traits. I've made some minor corrections to the article stating both its Scottish and Northern English shared cultural links. So it shouldn't be so biased towards a particular area now.

Kentynet (talk) 11:36, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Similarly, the claim that the lands just north and south of the border have a "common Northumbrian heritage" is confusing, specious and equally biased. Their having once been part of the same ancient kingdom is no longer deemed a meaningful element of their 'heritage'and means little, if anything, on the Scottish side. And the 'shared?' culture cannot be described as 'Northumbrian' on both sides of the border. Any elements that are shared would never be described as 'Northumbrian' on the Scottish side, either by Scots borderers or by Northumbrians themselves. I suggest at least removing 'Northumbrian' from the phrase. Ceartas 22:13, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

• Increasing discontent with the lack of government investment in the region has started to see a rise of people in certain parts of Northumberland (namely the West and North) looking towards Scotland as a possible solution. Also many Northumbrians in the West and North of the county will equally support Scotland's national team in sporting events as well as England. I think it is wrong to suggest that Northumberland has a single identity... identity in the county is more closely followed by the former district councils... although there are also differences according to how far away one lives from Newcastle. I personally believe that the identity in the county is neither English nor Scottish but unique to Northumbrians. Furthermore, things such as Burns Night is celebrated more widely in Tynedale, Northumberland than it is in the Highlands of Scotland.

Coat of Arms

I replaced the new 'free-to-use' coat of arms added recently with the original one in use on this page. I did this because after consulting a County Council publication I noticed that the free-to-use version contained the following inaccuracies and so was unsuitable for use on this page:

• compartment - the grass is not the correct shape
• motto banner - not the correct shape and style and is in the wrong position
• mantling - too big and the wrong shape
• supporter - the collars on the supporters are too big and in the wrong position
• flag pole and lions' arms - in the wrong position - they should not cover the central shield

These inaccuracies come from the fact that the image is made up from bits of other images. If these other images could be manipulated correctly then it should be possible to create an accurate representation. I have no idea how to do this but if anyone can then the image currently displayed is accurate apart from the shape of the bottom edge of the grass compartment, however it is the most accurate image available. Before the current, accurate image is replaced by such a newly created free-to-use image again it would be good if that image was displayed on this page first so it could be checked for accuracy and so that the old, accurate image would not be deleted as redundant before it truly is. Many thanks Jonny1047 (talk) 20:09, 20 January 2011 (UTC) edited Jonny1047 (talk) 20:27, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Well most of things don't matter for instance the compartment is not included in the blazon and can be omitted altogether, the scroll for the motto can be any shape the artist likes etcetera etcetera. While there may be issues around an image along as it agrees with the blazon as contained in the letters patent then it is correct. The county council happen to use one artist's interpretation but we don't have to copy that faithfully.Lozleader (talk) 23:41, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Ah, then I stand corrected. Is it then necessary to use the free-to-use image instead? Or is it simply optional? I think that the original image is better-looking and it is the one that most closely corresponds with that used by the Council. Jonny1047 (talk) 16:57, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

International Understanding

I changed the term "Footballer" to "Soccer Player" purely in the interests of International understanding.

In the United States the term "Footballer" refers to an athlete who plays American Football. Australia also has its own style of Football.

The word "soccer" however has no dual meaning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DLibrasnow (talk • contribs) 20:10, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Yes, but this is an article about part of Britain. It would be wise to seek consensus for your proposed change before you attempt to make it again. Please see WP:ENGVAR for more on the general principles, and Portal:English football for a comment on nomenclature. (Earlier bad-tempered version removed.) Thanks and best wishes DBaK (talk) 07:31, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I am still finding my way around wikipedia. Thanks for the advice. My mother actually is good friends with the Steven family (I've met them only once at a party). Just thought a word like soccer without a dual meaning was a good thing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DLibrasnow (talk • contribs) 03:40, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply, and you're very welcome in turn. Excellent family connection! :) I understand your point about the meaning but I honestly think it will never work on UK articles - it's really going to hinge more on what the local flavo[u]r of English says, and that is simply "football". It causes me grave discomfort to talk about "soccer" in Northumberland and, while that is not exactly a scientifically-valid sample size, I suspect you'd find similar sentiment among many editors. At the same time, it is possible to argue that the context makes it clear or at least helps. Finally, if you really wanted to keep the locals happy and explain it for people who didn't get it, you could consider editing it to this: [[Association football|football]] (note the pipe character) which renders like this: football. I suppose there might be a slight possibility that someone might feel it was overlinking, but, if not, it would satisfy both demands. Myself, I'd leave it ... but hey. Thanks and best wishes DBaK (talk) 17:50, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

No problem...as I said I thought I was being useful switching it to soccer, but your point is well taken and in the end it makes no real difference to me since I know the game that Trevor Steven played :) DLibrasnow (talk) 01:45, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

New External Link Proposal

The existing external link to Enjoy Northumberland http://www.enjoy-northumberland.co.uk/ is a site that has not been updated in a long time. A lot of the images no longer load and many of the main links on the page eg, Alnwick Restaurants, Berwick Restaurants have no information at all. There is very little original information and most of the articles on the website link to external content. I propose that this external link be removed from the section of the Northumberland article and be replaced by Your Northumberland Guide http://www.yournorthumberland.co.uk

This site is up to date, contains a huge amount of original content about Northumberland's Areas, Attractions, Restaurants and Things To Do, Coastline and Castles. It is listed under Dmoz section Regional: Europe: United Kingdom: England: Northumberland: Guides and Directories and is much more relevant than the existing link mentioned. Bothamley (talk) 23:11, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Change in ethnicity statistics

I cannot see how Northumberland can go from having the lowest ethnic minority to one of the highest. Remember that this does not also include Tyne & Wear or any other of the nearby counties. I would like to know the source of these statistics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HolyB144 (talk • contribs) 06:17, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

The statistics regarding the ethnic background of inhabitants were specifically changed for Northumberland by those who were upset by the high percentage, but without similarly changing the statistics for the other counties. This will be corrected to correlate with the changes made here. HolyB144 (talk) 17:47, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Length of the Northumberland Coast Path

The source quoted gives the distance of the Northumberland Coast Path with kilometres first. I flipped the display and included a note about the source in the citation so as not to change the order that I found. Removing the |disp=flip would make the distance consistent with the source and with the usage in the rest of the article. However, I'll leave that for others to decide. Michael Glass (talk) 05:55, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Transport

I want to know how to get there, and which airport(s) is serving Northumberland. Based on another article in Wikipedia, Newcastle Airport serves Northumberland. Anyone can create a new section? I'm not too good at it, and don't have much information too.Maodi xn (talk) 09:58, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Boundaries: recent edits

Copied from User talk:Ghmyrtle:
As far as I can see, my edits are added explanatory information on top of the existing material. I have referred to the current administrative county of Tyne and Wear as a governmental entity that exists simultaneously to, and occupies partial territory of, the two historic counties who's borders it straddles. I have not stated that the traditional counties correspond with today's administrative borders and "still exist for administrative purposes" as you say. In fact, I have attempted to convey quite the opposite concept that the area governed by Northumberland county council is a smaller area within the historic county of the same name. I also think it is worthy to point out that I am native to the area I have edited information on and the general consensus amongst fellow locals is that Northumberland contains Newcastle and North Tyneside (with the rest of Tyne and Wear being part of County Durham). It is this view that I would've liked to have been represented on such a widely used website as Wikipedia to promote the awareness of the historic counties due to their there cultural importance and significance that dwarfs that of the administrative counties. So I hope that you could perhaps inform me as to how I could tweak my edits to conform with the established rules of the site while maintaining their meaning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lorcan0t (talk • contribs) 11:46, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Look at the changes you have made. You have removed references to the current county bordering Cumbria, Tyne and Wear, and the Scottish Borders, and you have removed references to Newcastle no longer being within Northumberland as currently defined. Those changes are contrary to the approach that is adopted on this site, and your protestations on "the general consensus amongst fellow locals" are, I'm afraid, not relevant, and neither is your position that you are trying "to promote the awareness of the historic counties due to their cultural importance and significance that dwarfs that of the administrative counties." We are to reflect a neutral point of view. The consensus here is that articles should primarily reflect the current administrative geography, but of course can additionally explain historic boundaries and allegiances. That's not my decision - it's a decision reached collectively after lengthy discussions some time ago. It's best if I copy this across to the article talk page, where any further discussion can take place. Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:14, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

History

Why list a handful of mines and ignore all of the, many, others? It would be better to link to a list of all of the Northumberland mines rather than preferring a few over the others. A link to Durham Mining Museum might suffice or adding a new section to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northumberland_Coalfield. BongoPedro (talk) 19:08, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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