Talk:Non-brewed condiment

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Vinegar substitute?

I'm not sure this is the best wording.

By UK Trading Standards, non-brewed condiment can't be _called_ "vinegar" when sold or offered as a condiment in food shops (because that would trick people into believing it's malt vinegar). But in fact, it _is_ a vinegar ("an aqueous solution of acetic acid"); it's just a cheap vinegar that's used as a substitute for a more expensive vinegar (malt vinegar). So, calling it a "vinegar substitute" seems a bit misleading.

Reading the entire article does clear up the confusion, but I'm not sure that's sufficient to make up for a misleading lede.

So I think it's better to say that it's a "malt vinegar substitute" and not even address the question of whether it is or isn't vinegar in the opening sentence. (Again, the rest of the article does clear that up satisfactorily.) --157.131.171.92 (talk) 06:38, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Sourcing. Per UK rules (I don't know the rest of the world) all "vinegar" (sold and described as such) is brewed. Non-brewed acetic acid solutions are NBC, but not vinegar. However spirit vinegars can be coloured with caramel to resemble malt vinegar, but they can't be described as malt vinegar. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:27, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Always synthetic?

The article currently seems to imply, but never actually states, that non-brewed vinegar is always synthetic (as you'd expect from the name). And I believe the stuff you buy in bulk is always made of synthetic vinegar from methanol carbonylation. But you can also make substitute malt vinegar in your shop out of cheap white vinegar, in which case it actually is brewed rather than synthetic--but you still have to call it "non-brewed condiment".

The citation suggestion that some chip shops use Non-brewed condiment doesn't properly support the proposition. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cheqingard (talk • contribs) 23:16, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

However, I don't know if this is still current practice, and even if it is, I don't have any sources, so I'll just leave this here in case someone else want to do the research to get it straight: --157.131.171.92 (talk) 06:43, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Bottles

The NCASS source says that "Non-brewed condiment cannot be (...) in a distinctive container which customers may associate with vinegar." Obviously it would be misleading to refill a bottle of Sarsons with NBC but what kind of bottle is one supposed to use instead? Are the soft plastic bottles in chippies associated with vinegar and if not, how is someone supposed to know what he is pouring over his food? Oddly enough salt and vinegar crisps can be sold without vinegar as an ingredient. 92.192.169.142 (talk) 02:41, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

It means a distinctive container, i.e. one that's distinctive. Not merely one that's associated with another brand. So the 'typical' Sarsons' glass bottle is OK (if unlabelled), because it's a genericised bottle (even though it's also the basis for supermarket own-brand bottles, because of this association to its size and proportion). A plastic droplet insert is also OK, because that's functional. So is the squeezable large plastic dispenser bottle, because that too is functional and indistinct. But what you can't use is the 'indian club' bottle, as used by Sarsons (and others), or the squat, tapered glass 'hobnail' bottle beloved of ancient greasy spoons.

BTW, Commons has photos of neither of these. Andy Dingley (talk) 03:45, 2 January 2024 (UTC)