Talk:Nikita Parris/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Edwininlondon (talk · contribs) 08:34, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm happy to review this. I made some minor edits already, which you may want to check. My first impression is good. The only thing I miss from the usual player template is a section on Style of play. Anyway, a more detailed review will follow. Edwininlondon (talk) 08:34, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

The lead:

• A bit more context about the club is needed I think, similar to the lead of the Miedema article for example: French Division 1 Féminine club Olympique Lyonnais

• Done. Hmlarson (talk)

• From 2018 to 2020, Parris held the record as all-time leading scorer in the Women's Super League --> remove references from lead (and also, find a place for this information somewhere in the body. When did she lose it and who overtook her? That should not be here in the lead, but should be in the body somewhere I think).

• Updated. Hmlarson (talk) 22:52, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

• With Manchester City, --> looks like the WSL league title is missing

• Added. Hmlarson (talk) 22:52, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

• Soccerway also has her winning the international champions cup with Lyon: https://int.soccerway.com/players/nakita-parris/139642/

• Updated. Hmlarson (talk) 01:40, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

• For England, .. --> I would beef this paragraph up a bit. Which major finals did she play in? Did she score?

• Revised. Hmlarson (talk) 01:40, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

• I don't think the youth games should be mentioned in the lead. I think only if they lead to winning something do they make it in the lead once the player is a senior.

• Removed Hmlarson (talk) 01:40, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

• The last paragraph also needs a bit more. She was named in the Guardian's best 100 in 2018 and 2019 see https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2018/dec/04/the-100-best-female-footballers-in-the-world-2018 and https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2019/dec/03/the-100-best-female-footballers-in-the-world-2019

• Done. Hmlarson (talk)

The infobox:

• Both club and national team numbers seem outdated, I mean just by looking at the timestamp.

• Done. Hmlarson (talk) 19:27, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Body article:

• international player, Julie Fleeting --> I would drop the comma here

• Done. Hmlarson (talk) 19:27, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

• As a youth --> when was this? Was this still with boys?

• Says 11 in the quote, I think this is fine. Hmlarson (talk) 19:27, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

• Ok. Edwininlondon (talk) 09:01, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

• eleven --> I am no good with MOS:NUM but I think if you have 16 you must have 11

• Changed "six" to "6" in the "At age 6, she began playing football with boys on a grass border near her home and continued playing with boys until she was 16." sentence. Hmlarson (talk) 19:27, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

• Her mum often --> bit too informal. Mother is better

• Done. Hmlarson (talk) 19:27, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

• did not want to leave --> leave Kingsley United? or leave home? And was she really recruited if she declined? Is there a different way to phrase this?

• Edwininlondon - Do you live in UK? I feel like I may be missing some regional context. Can you assist confirming what is meant here + how you'd like to revise in the Wikipedia article:

"When I played for Kingsley my mum would come to watch. One day when I was 10, a woman walked over to her. Her name was Mo Marley and she was head coach of Everton Ladies. She told Mum that I had talent. She wanted me to play for her team. When Mum told me about it, I said, “No! I’m not leaving!” Haha! I must have looked crazy to turn down a chance like that. But I am a strong Liverpool supporter! What did she expect me to say?! " Hmlarson (talk) 16:20, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

• I'm not a native speaker, so I'm happy you challenge my challenges. Please continue to do so. In this case I was wondering whether she did not want to give up the team she founded or whether she did not want to leave home, since some academies are essentially boarding schools. I'm not convinced my questions need answering in the article. I do like this quote you suggest, but I don't think having 2 quotes from her youth are right for the article, that's a bit too much perhaps. So to conclude, no change in the article, I was just curious. Edwininlondon (talk) 18:57, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

• degree in Sports Development --> are these capitals necessary? If it were physics I'd say a degree in physics

• Done. Hmlarson (talk) 19:27, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

• Parris made her senior team debut for Everton in August 2010 at the age of 17 during the qualifying tournament for the 2010–11 UEFA Women's Champions League --> From the table with stats below it looks like she scored twice in Europe. Surely worth a mention?

• Good eye - thanks for catching that. Expanded. Hmlarson (talk) 16:59, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

• From the stats it looks like she made her debut in the year before, in the 2009-2010 season?

• I don't see a date for this to confirm your question and the reference for this sentence is her official Everton bio, which states "Nikita made her debut for Everton Ladies in the 2010/11 Women's Champions League qualifying tournament in Lithuania in August 2010." Hmlarson (talk) 16:27, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

• Source #51 is the FA and after some digging around there I found this page that suggests she came off the bench against Arsenal in May 2010: https://fulltime-league.thefa.com/DisplayFixture.do?id=6575039 Perhaps this discrepency with the official Everton bio is due to her being so young? Perhaps not signed a professional contract yet? Not sure, just guessing. Edwininlondon (talk) 18:57, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

• Interesting. I'm not sure how to incorporate this. Feel free to edit as you see fit. Hmlarson (talk) 19:31, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
• I'm inclined to trust the FA archives more than the club or ESPN. But somehow we have to simply report the uncertainty. I made an edit using a footnote. What do you think? Edwininlondon (talk) 08:47, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

• Her brace against her hometown of Liverpool --> since Everton is also from Liverpool, this is a bit odd to say

• Removed. Hmlarson (talk) 19:27, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

• was Everton's only goals --> this reads odd with singular verb and then goals, perhaps techinically correct with brace as a subject, it still doesn't flow nicely

• Changed "brace" to "two goals". Hmlarson (talk) 19:27, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

• Everton finished in third place --> and how many did Parris score? Was she already club top scorer?

• No goals are indicated at soccerway for the 2012 season. Hmlarson (talk) 20:11, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

• During a match against her hometown of Liverpool --> still doesn't feel right to say this

• Removed. Hmlarson (talk) 19:27, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

• another header off of Izzy Christiansen's free-kick --> to avoid confusion,perhaps "another header, this time off of Izzy Christiansen's free-kick"

• Edited. Hmlarson (talk) 19:27, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

• Final Stages of the League Cup helping Manchester City clinch the 2016 title. --> I think final stages is better. I also think the last bit could be a bit more clear. I think 2016 title could easily be read to refer to the league. I'd say something along the lines of "final stages of the League Cup, helping Manchester City win the 2016 cup."

• I don't agree on this one -- mostly using cup twice in the same sentence. Hmlarson (talk) 19:40, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

• Yes, you have a point. Let's just leave it as it is. Edwininlondon (talk) 09:01, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

• In November 2017 --> this is al a bit confusing timing wise. I had to look it up but I think I now understand what actually happened. If I may make some suggestions: what you have as 2017 WSL season is actually linking to the FA WSL Spring Series, which ran in early 2017. Then I think you need to write about the 2017–18 FA WSL season, and in that bit you can mention she renewed the contract. Just to keep things in chronological order.

• Thanks for spotting this and providing clarification. I've updated + expanded. Hmlarson (talk)

• During the 2018–19 season, Parris scored 19 goals in 19 games. --> any noteworthy goals?

• Expanded significantly. Thanks for this. Hmlarson (talk) 18:49, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

• She was the second-highest scorer in the league for the season --> who was top scorer?

• Miedema -- but I think adding that to this already long sentence makes it a run-on and detracts from Parris -- the main subject of the article. Hmlarson (talk)

• Ok Edwininlondon (talk) 09:01, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

• the highest all-time WSL goalscorer --> This deserves a sentence on its own: when did this happen? who held the record before? how many?

• This was expanded further along in the paragraph. Updated with how many goals and who former recordholder was. Hmlarson (talk) 01:48, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

• second in the all-time assists -- same here: a sentence on its own, how many, who was top?

• This has been clarified in the final paragraph of the Manchester City, 2016-19 section. Hmlarson (talk) 02:02, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

• The striker helped Manchester City win two FA Cups in 2017 and 2019, two Continental Cups, a league title and two Champions League semi-finals. --> Quite a few of these have not been mentioned before. I think it's noteworthy to describe her 2017 FA Cup involvement. And definitely her Champions league involvements.

• Added sentences about 2017 and 2019 FA Cups. Hmlarson (talk)
• Added Manchester City Champions League experiences. Hmlarson (talk) 00:52, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

• On 19 June 2019, Parris' signing with Division 1 Féminine side Olympique Lyonnais was officially confirmed by the club --> On 19 June 2019 Division 1 Féminine side Olympique Lyonnais confirmed they had signed Parris on a three-year contract.

• Edited. Hmlarson (talk) 19:30, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

• February 23 --> the previous sentence uses a different date format

• Edited. Hmlarson (talk) 19:30, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

• proved to be the final match of the campaign. --> Did they declare a winner of the league?

• Edited sentence. Expanded about league winner + champions league berth.Hmlarson (talk) 02:13, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

• but missed the final --> Even though she missed it, something should be said about it, I think, especially since it shows up on her honour list.

• Good point. Expanded. Hmlarson (talk) 20:18, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

• During a match against ASJ Soyaux Charente --> This needs more context: something about the current season. This now is a lonely orphan sentence.

• Expanded 2020-21 season. Hmlarson (talk) 21:16, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

• coming on as a substitute in England's Euro 2017 qualifying victory over Serbia, registering --> perhaps a rephrase with fewer ", -ing ... , -ing" constructions

• Split into two sentences and edited. Hmlarson (talk) 19:33, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

• Parris and her England team-mates --> I would not start a new paragraph here. I would start the sentence with "In their next game..." And previously teammates was without hyphen.

• Combined paragraphs. Hmlarson (talk) 19:30, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

More later. Edwininlondon (talk) 11:52, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

• How far did they get at Euros 2017? Did she play all games? Score more goals? I'd prefr it if there was a 2017 Euros section, just there is one for WC 2019

• Updated. Hmlarson (talk) 21:39, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

• and England's first in the 2019 World Cup during their opening group game --> that England's first bit is not necessary since that's obvious if it's during their opening group game

• if I removed "and England's first" it's not obvious. Someone could've scored a different goal before her. Hmlarson (talk) 01:42, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

• over Norway in the knockout stages --> I'd be more specific and say quarter-finals

• Edited. Hmlarson (talk) 19:12, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

• On 29 August, --> not sure if this should be in the 2019 World Cup section. I guess it's ok if there is nothing else to say. I see England is hosts for the upcoming Euros so no qualifiers have been played.

• Leaving as is for now. This can be re-structured once more time has lapse. Hmlarson (talk)

• As of match played 12 October 2019 --> these need to be updated
  • Updated. --SuperJew (talk) 00:12, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
• a. a b c d e Appearances --> In the table there is only a, so not sure why it shows a b c d e
  • Used alternative format --SuperJew (talk) 00:12, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
• I'm not sure I understand what is happening in the Division column. From 2011 to 2018-19, should it not all be called WSL?
  • Fixed. --SuperJew (talk) 00:12, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
• International goals --> Add how many caps she has earned, and add a time stamp
• To be consistent with the rows above it, 2019 FIFA Women's World Cup should just be 2019 Women's World Cup
  • Fixed. --SuperJew (talk) 00:12, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

More later. Edwininlondon (talk) 19:02, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

• The same year, Parris joined seven --> I think it would be good to convey that is an initiative from within the FA. It looks a bit as if these players independently initiated it, which I believe is not the case.

• Edited. Hmlarson (talk) 15:13, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

• Her first name is sometimes shortened to Keets --> My interpretation of MOS:BOLD is that Keets should not be in bold.

• Removed bold formatting. Hmlarson (talk) 15:13, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

That's it for now. I'll look at the sources later. Edwininlondon (talk) 09:01, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

BTW: If you need more info or sources, I came across this Telegraph article in my quest for the Everton debut sources: https://web.archive.org/web/20210130082431/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-cup/2019/06/13/making-nikita-parris-earth-england-star-know-best/

It has come along very nicely. Before I do a new pass of the whole expanded article, one more thing: the standard player template has a Style of play section. I think there is enough source material, at the very least from coaches and colleagues, to say something about that. Just one source as example: https://web.archive.org/web/20210130082431/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-cup/2019/06/13/making-nikita-parris-earth-england-star-know-best/ Edwininlondon (talk) 10:22, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

@Hmlarson: Just making sure this is still on your radar. Or perhaps I was not clear above and made you think I was going to do a new pass and you're waiting for that. Sorry if I was unclear, but I was actually waiting for you. Nearly there I think. Edwininlondon (talk) 07:50, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

• @Edwininlondon: thank you for pinging me. I've added the Style of Play section. Are you waiting on anything else? Hmlarson (talk) 23:59, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

No, just that. I will take one final look over the article and do a spot check of the sources soon. Edwininlondon (talk) 18:18, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

11 March 2021 Suggestions

I made a few minor edits. I hope you don't mind. I now have just a few comments:

• Olympique Lyonnais & Lyon -> I think it's ok to use Olympique Lyonnais the first time and then Lyon onwards, but now it's a bit of a random switch.

Y Updated to Olympique Lyonnais throughout for consistency. Hmlarson (talk) 16:14, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

• 2021–22 UEFA Women's Champions League -> should that not be 2020–21 UEFA Women's Champions League?

Y Updated. Hmlarson (talk) 16:14, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

• showed a lack of empathy, understanding and ignorance. --> I can see the source has this but it's not right ... this now reads as "a lack of ignorance", which is the opposite of what I think she intends. Maybe just rephrase as "showed a lack of empathy and understanding."?

Y Edited. Hmlarson (talk) 16:14, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

• After finishing as England's top scorer in qualifying with six goals, --> that point was already made, so not sure we need it again

Y Edited. Hmlarson (talk) 16:17, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

• As of match played 6 July 2019 --> 1) just checking, is that date from her most recent game? Are all the stats up to date? Here and everywhere, including infobox? 2) for the club stats the datestamp statement precedes the table, but this one seems to come after. Better to have it precede the table I think.

Y Updated all three 28 March 2021. Hmlarson (talk) 16:21, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Tomorrow I will do a spot check of the sources. Otherwise, that is it. Edwininlondon (talk) 22:29, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

28 March 2021 Suggestions

Sources:

• The Morning Star is listed in yellow with a warning sign on WP:RSPSOURCES. I think we can safely delete it as the statement is already covered by the other source.

Y Updated. Hmlarson (talk) 16:39, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

• YouTube reference: it's better to use this one from fifa.com directly: https://www.fifa.com/womensworldcup/news/england-s-history-maker-sees-reason-to-believe

Y Updated although FIFA has a long history of re-organizing their website and articles, player bios suddenly disappear. Hmlarson (talk) 16:39, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

@Hmlarson: I archived and added the archive link so that if it will be dead-linked a bot/user can easily pick it up and update the ref to the archived version. --SuperJew (talk) 08:21, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

• source #66 covers the Sampson sentences well except for "in need of diversity training". I don't see that in the Independent story. #67,68,69, and 70 all check out fine.

Y Edited / updated. Hmlarson (talk) 16:39, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

• sources #63 and 64 check out ok.
• the text "game-winners against SKN St. Pölten" needs a source.

Y Edited to two game-winners. Hmlarson (talk) 16:43, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

• sources #34, 35, 50, 51 check out fine, except for 51 does not quite cover everything in "The striker helped Manchester City win two FA Cups in 2017 and 2019, two Continental Cups, a league title and two Champions League semi-finals". We need an extra source for confirming 2017 and 2019, or perhaps even better, just drop the years. The other facts have no years either

Y Added soccerway ref instead. Hmlarson (talk) 16:47, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

• sources #53 and 56, 57, 58 check out fine
• source #55 does not quite cover the following facts: "23 February", "season was curtailed by the COVID-19 pandemic in France"

Y Added soccerway ref. Hmlarson (talk) 16:47, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

@Hmlarson: Just making sure this is still on your radar... Edwininlondon (talk) 11:13, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

@Edwininlondon: Thank you. I have made the suggested updates. Hmlarson (talk) 16:47, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

All done. I believe this article now meets all the GA criteria. It was a pleasure working with you on this. Great work. Edwininlondon (talk) 17:17, 28 March 2021 (UTC)