Talk:New Orleans Police Department

Copyright violations

first off the reported violations seem to be copied from a city government website. IANAL but i was under the impression that works created by the government are in the public domain. if this is the case then some of this material may be worth including. if this is not the case then I think the katrina section needs to be rewriten as its a pretty important part of their history --Michael Lynn 12:17, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Works created by the US federal government are not subject to copyright (17 USC section 105). The statute does not apply to state or local governments. See here: United_States_copyright_law#Works_by_the_federal_government 66.169.237.88 (talk) 10:44, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

The text in question (Most of the current article) was copied from the article archived at [1], and municipal government pages are indeed not public domain. I have removed the offending material, though some more recent edits may also have been lost in the process. 71.185.56.58 (talk) 03:57, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

As a result of this copyright issue, we've lost almost all of the text related to the history of the New Orleans Police Department (at least up until 2001)--a situation which is totally unacceptable and completely disfigures the article. We need to find a way to reinstate and/or reconstruct earlier text sections (as best as possible) and, of course, properly attribute whatever contents to proper sources, avoiding mention of things that may not be public information. Obviously any new wording would have to be paraphrased, not copied. If the municipal government pages can't be used, then we need to find other sources to compensate. But, wouldn't information provided on a city website be considered public information (why would it be there otherwise)? The article in its present truncated form is unacceptable. Garagepunk66 (talk) 16:16, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

References?

The article appears to be referencing something through the use of bracketed numbers ([12], [15], and the like). But it's not at all clear what this refers to. Could the originating editor please use standard Wiki referencing notation, so that content can be verified? CzechOut ☎ | ✍ 22:17, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

rank insignia incorrect + missing ranks?

1) I have been told that the New Orleans Police Department has discontinued the special rank insignia for Captains serving as District Commander (the 2 gold bars in a wreath). I believe this happened even before Katrina but I am not 100% certain.

2) New Orleans Police Sergeant chevrons are gold chevrons on black/dark blue background. See here for a picture:

3) The most senior ranking/longest serving Sergeant in the New Orleans Police Department holds the rank of Sergeant Major and wears the same insignia as a US Army Sergeant Major but in the same color style as the regular sergeant rank insignia (gold chevrons on dark blue background).

Cfagan1987 (talk) 19:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

References

Consent Decree?

An entire article about the NOPD and no mention at all of the Consent Decree? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.173.173.99 (talk) 21:57, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

External links modified (February 2018)

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Rank question

I see official references to senior officers, though don’t apparently see them in the official policy manual, nor officially listed in any manner. Is senior officer the title given to an officer iv? Another possibility is that the rank was discontinued, perhaps renamed officer iv, but those who had that rank earlier without being promoted further simply keep that title. 108.49.119.37 (talk) 02:00, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

What official reference are you referring to? MartinezMD (talk) 02:13, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

2 senior officers recently died from COVID and official sources seem to list them with formal rank/title of senior officer. It’s possible that because both served for a few decades, senior officers were ranks at the time, and when the rank was removed/renamed, active members kept the rank instead of also being renamed. This is similar to Dallas TX police with the obsolete captain rank. Or alternatively an officer iv is a senior officer. 2600:1000:B011:49F0:799E:4CBD:B763:3D14 (talk) 13:26, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Again, what reference? Do you have a link we can look at? Senior may not be an official title and just referring to their years of service. Never mind. A little Googling turns up definite official title but no explanation. MartinezMD (talk) 16:09, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Looks like they revised their rank and pay structure a good bit that went into effect in 2018. "Entry-level officers will see a 10.5 percent raise under the plan, bringing them to about $46,900 in base pay. More experienced patrol officers will receive raises of between 5 percent and 16 percent a year under a new category called "senior police officer." The plan calls for a new rank of corporal..." I've used up my NOLA.com free articles (for a month?) so I can't read the second article, but the first one links to it. The old ranks of officer 1-IV might need revising, not sure about it. MartinezMD (talk) 17:10, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

References

Rank question again

The current rank structure is inaccurate, per current department staffing listed in a combination of municipal class specifications and the department's policies. For one, detective is listed as a rank, when it's only an assignment, and begins with the senior officer rank. Corporals are ranks that are at least listed in current versions of the department policies, and so does officer IV really have the same insignia as the separate corporal rank, not to mention with senior officer in between officer IV and corporal? Granted, Texas's Dallas police department has corporals as well as senior corporals, with the latter having the same corporal insignia, and South Dakota's Pennington County Sheriff's Department has corporals and senior deputies which both have corporal chevrons. Further, commanders and majors should technically still be listed as ranks, given their recognition in municipal class specifications. 108.49.241.77 (talk) 22:27, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

@ IP comments. You are correct (I didn't look) but being a detective, in New Orleans, is not actually a raise in rank.

There is some unnecessary studying and assumptions concerning detectives. A plain clothed detective does not drive around listening to the radio to run to a crime scene. When an officer responds to a call, first on the scene, a further communication, radio or call, is a deciding factor if a detective is needed. Usually these officers are from a special Criminal investigation division (CID) like homicide, narcotics, fraud, or maybe even gangs. Since the 1984 Violence Against Women Act there are SVU units or at least in some smaller police forces an officer with specialized training.

The New Orleans Police Department is divided into six bureaus with one being the Investigation and Support Bureau, that includes the criminal-investigative-division, which "is comprised of all of the centralized detectives in the New Orleans Police Department." :The division has five sections, 1)- Homicide Section, 2)- the Special Victims Section, 3)- the Property Crimes Section, 4)- the Juvenile Section, 5)- and the District Attorney’s Office Section. Detectives in this last one may investigate fraud and the likes.

When a CID officer is "assigned" a case that person in fact becomes the officer-in-charge. There is no "pissing contest" because even if there is a uniformed sergeant or officer on scene, they know the case is handed over for criminal investigation that has their own chain of command.

A "lateral move" into a criminal investigation unit in New Orleans is not considered a "raise in rank". New York has a "third grade", then promoted to "second grade", and finally first grade" detective. Chicago nor New Orleans has this hierarchy. However, the "gold Shield" is a given, and a pay raise. The NOPD detectives average $75,223 as of December 27, 2023, with some earning $83,029 a year. My position was once called into question by another employee so I showed her my pay stub and commented, "I don't care if they call me head commode washer, apparently it pays the same as assistant manager".

If a uniformed lieutenant is on a case that involves a "special victim" a lowly detective takes over the case upon arrival. Rank or no rank there is an increase (elevation) in the hierarchy, because of special training of the detective position, likely in every police department this does command certain authority. -- Otr500 (talk) 16:02, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Mr. Bojangles

Jerry Jeff Walker said the song Mr Bojangles was about a guy he met in the first precinct jail in New Orleans. 24.192.24.95 (talk) 15:49, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Article issues

On reading this article it seems mostly misnamed and a difficult read. The opening lead sentence, normally a brief, and usually non-argumentative, "basics in a nutshell" is followed by article summary introductory text, usually three or four (sometimes more) paragraphs.

This article begins, the second lead paragraph, and sets the tone as a historically dishonest, long history of civil rights violations, corruption and poor oversight police department. Welcome to Louisiana politics.

• Suggestions:
  • 1)- The article is in need of a rewrite with at least some form of neutrality.

The department consists of six bureaus with around 1,200 men and women, officers, and civilians. It would be hard pressed for me to be convinced that some, a lot, or all of these non-civilian men and women are hired having or needing to possess nefarious reasoning.

Lack of "oversight" within police departments, as well as outside civilian oversight, has largely been somewhat of a ceremonial, not to seriously followed, "the way it is" type of bureaucracy, that seems never ending. Some of this can be thanked to budget cuts. This will only get worse. Joe Biden temporary suspended the debt ceiling. At upwards of $34,221,000,000,000 (trillions) we can never ever, EVER repay, tax cuts ending, an already bad economy that Biden states is not bad. 2025 could be the U.S. sink or swim year with another potentially calamitous default deadline.

I have been an adamant critic of any police forces, sometimes referred to as "peace officers", being militarized. This is usually more evident in smaller police departments that should look to Parish or State police for Swat tactical operations and a noted difference between SWAT and "Special Response Teams" (SRT) that usually have some officers specifically trained in hazardous warrant service, high risk arrests in almost any environment, weapons training both in lethal and less lethal types, and Sniper and counter Sniper training.

Any police officer, as well as part-time/reserve peace officers, must complete a Peace Officer Standards and Training Council (POST) certification. The POST description of a police officer in the state of Louisiana is "peace officer".

A police forum report concluded that officer training is not a panacea (universal remedy) but mostly is a universally splintered system of training. The International Association of Directors of Law Enforcement Standards and Training (IADLEST) study identified 822 basic training academies in the United States usually with independant training criteria. Only 36 states follow a National Certification program (NCP).

The problems associated with the NOPD is not just a Louisiana problem but a bigger city problem.

• Louisville, Kentucky has had long term major problems. Others are:
• Boston police department and a reported uphill battle with police reform.
• New York City police, terrible legacy of racialized policing, has started the the Police Reform and Reinvention Collaborative. Maybe reforms can stop future murders like Anthony Baez, Amadou Diallo, Ousmane Zango, Sean Bell, Ramarley Graham, Patrick Dorismond, Akai Gurley, and Eric Garner?
• Many police departments have initiated reforms after the murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis.
• Cleveland Division of Police.
• Los Angeles, California has around 9,200 officers. Remember the Rampart scandal? There are many critics of the judge's removal of oversight. There many others.

It is sad we have to give police departments a definition of continued corruption:

• The Justice Department has to establish a "Pattern or practice of conduct" in in order to prosecute violations of the U.S. Constitution and federal law. Operates sort of like Wikipedia. Do not make personal attacks anywhere on Wikipedia. Comment on content, not on the contributor. "The prohibition against personal attacks applies equally to all Wikipedians". "Egregious attacks should not be ignored." If an editor shows a pattern of harassment this may be considered egregious resulting in sanctions. I think all police departments need ongoing training, especially in identifying how to deescalate potential issues, when use of force is necessary, what crosses the threshold of "excessive", and when a a situation moves to possibly needing deadly force. Smaller city police forces should look to

Back to this article:

• • 2)- The history section should be divided into subsections (Early history, etc...) for ease of navigation.
  • 3)-The "Misconduct" has too much unnecessary information.

Crimes committed by police are one thing but a possible drug induced officer committing a crime, or a random act of murder, should not have the luxury of a separate subsection. It is debatable if some of these should even have a stand alone articles. There are approximately 16.1 murders every day in the U.S. and the victim's family could all probably argue for a stand alone article. However, regardless of that, I don't think a police department article needs to be unnecessarily expanded with subsections covering all the police crimes. New orleans, at 70 murders per 100,000 population overtook St. Louis and the 60 murders per 100,000.

• I just see a need for a reassessment, I don't feel the article passes the B-class criteria, and needs article content towards more editorial neutrality. -- Otr500 (talk) 13:45, 11 February 2024 (UTC)