Talk:New Mexico State University/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Older comments

Latest comment: 17 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I'm quite new to Wiki so I don't want to change this, but I happen to know that Pistol Pete is back now and that "Pete" with the lasso has been done away with.

--209.179.168.30 01:56, 23 March 2007 (UTC)--209.179.168.30 01:56, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[[Image:the schoolhas engineers, agriculture, art, buisiness, education, extended learning, health, social services, and honors.

Some doofus has been goofing around with this entry, adding material about his friends. --JB

Fair use rationale for Image:NMstate logo thumb.jpg

Latest comment: 16 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Image:NMstate logo thumb.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:52, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Alumni List

Latest comment: 16 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I may be wrong, but wasn't Paul Klipsch (the loudspeaker guru) an alumni or, at least, a student at NMSU?--67.150.15.244 (talk) 17:27, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Endowment details

Latest comment: 15 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The endowment of the university is listed under the "school details" of the refrenced link. It is regularly changed above its actual amount. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.242.229.70 (talk) 23:17, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Undue emphasis on Las Cruces campus

Latest comment: 14 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

NMSU is a multi-campus university. Only about 55% of the enrollment is at the Las Cruces campus. NMSU no longer refers to the Las Cruces campus as the "main campus".

Despite this, the current article focuses almost completely on the Las Cruces campus. Some of the data is for the Las Cruces campus and some is for the system, but generally the article doesn't tell you which is which (for example, in the infobox the Faculty figures are for the system and the Enrollment figures are for the Las Cruces campus). The article needs a lot more work to cover its subject adequately. --Uncia (talk) 23:10, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Citations

Latest comment: 13 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Thanks to User:Juicy fruit146 for adding a LOT of citations recently to support a lot of the previously unsourced claims in the article. I think it should be noted however that {{full}} citations are needed. There is an example of a full citation on the "faculty" claim in the infobox: "faculty= 1,219<ref name="fall2009factbook">{{cite web|url=http://irpoa.nmsu.edu/QuickFacts/2009factbookmar10.pdf |title=Microsoft Word – 2009factbook |format=PDF |date= |accessdate=October 12, 2010}}</ref>" WP:CS has more info. Cheers. N2e (talk) 14:37, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

"A" hillside letter

Latest comment: 12 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Are there any photos available for the the "A" hillside letter for this school? See also List of Hillside Letters for more details. -- 208.81.184.4 (talk) 21:25, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

External links modified

Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 7 external links on New Mexico State University. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers. —^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 16:00, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 external links on New Mexico State University. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 20:06, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on New Mexico State University. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/20131023055541/http://masterplan.nmsu.edu/documents/master1990/hist.html to http://masterplan.nmsu.edu/documents/master1990/hist.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 11:42, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified (February 2018)

Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 7 external links on New Mexico State University. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 06:04, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Evidence for claim of flagship status

Latest comment: 4 years ago4 comments2 people in discussion

@Alamo NM: You've added information to this article several times claiming that this university is a "flagship" but you have not provided any sources. The sources I've looked at don't support this claim. Can you please provide some reliable sources that substantiate this claim? Thanks! ElKevbo (talk) 16:48, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

@ElKevbo: Hi Following the multiple methods to designate flagship universities, and lacking any real specific or legal definition, New Mexico has several flagship universities, including UNM as a R1 college, and NMSU as the land grant and oldest institution. Texas adopts a similar system. http://www.diycollegerankings.com/what-is-a-flagship-university/19598/

Also, see the Standard and Poor report ^[1] http://img.en25.com/Web/StandardandPoors/Flagship%20University%20Jul%2023%2010.pdf

Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alamo NM (talk • contribs) 13:34, March 19, 2019 (UTC)

Thanks! Can you please add the Standard & Poor reference to the article so that this is clear for other editors and readers? ElKevbo (talk) 17:54, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

That source seems to list a bunch of universities as "flagships" and even entire systems. Although this is a good source to utilize it offers a definition of "flagship" that is not universally accepted. This article also seems to focus on on the credit bonds of universities, not so much as a source of precise flagship university comparisons. Looking at the whole picture (and the consensus of the sources) it is generally more clear that New Mexico State University is not seen as the flagship university, and rather the University of Mexico is. AlaskanNativeRU (talk) 19:59, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

agreed there is no universally accepted defintion. As such I do not see consensus of sources (reference or unreferenced), and I do not see that is generally more clear as to which sets of universities are, and are not, considered flagship. Alamo NM (talk • contribs) 18:06, March 20, 2019 (UTC)

@Alamo NM: According to the US Department of Education - ERIC, a list recognized by the United States Government in this study here, and College Board, within their survey of flagships published annually here, both of which are primary sources listed on the Category talk:Flagship universities in the United States page, UNM is the only university recognized as a flagship in the state. Also, within the state itself, there aren't any publications or official language that call NMSU a flagship, meanwhile UNM has been consistently considered the flagship university since its inception, as seen in the Acts of the Legislative Assembly of the Territory of New Mexico, 28th session, chapter 138, section 7: “The university of New Mexico hereby created and established, is intended to be the state university when New Mexico shall [be] admitted as a state into the union”. I believe that that's enough to counteract the prior source as it lists, as others have mentioned, universities that are not considered flagships within their states. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jtrws (talk • contribs) 16:23, August 17, 2019 (UTC)

To the best of my knowledge, the U.S. Department of Education doesn't recognize "flagship" institutions. The department does support ERIC but that's just a repository of education publications that doesn't constitute endorsement of what is in those publications. The quote that you provided doesn't even include the word "flagship" or name this institution so I don't see how it's relevant to this discussion.

As has been stated many times, in most cases the "flagship" designation is informal, unregulated, and provided by many different people with many different definitions, criteria, and motivations. So it's entirely possible that some states have multiple "flagship" institutions or that different lists contradict one another. It appears that reliable sources have been provided for this institution so the more productive argument would be to focus on whether these sources should be included at all.

(Personally, I'd rather us remove all mention of this designation except for the handful of states that have this as a formal designation. It doesn't seem to be helpful for anyone and it just provokes these stupid, time-wasting arguments and edit wars. Moreover, for many institutions this designation is just another way that they trumpet their eliteness and superiority which is obviously not something we should support or document.) ElKevbo (talk) 21:35, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

References

^ "Standard and Poor Report - University data" (PDF). img.en25.com.

Use of bilingual title

Latest comment: 4 years ago27 comments8 people in discussion

@ElKevbo: It is standard for New Mexico to provide dual language names. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alamo NM (talk • contribs) 14:34, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

This is the English Wikipedia. We don't live in or work for the state of New Mexico. Exactly how is it "standard?" ElKevbo (talk) 14:37, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

@ElKevbo: We should refrain from further edits until consensus is reached on this topic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alamo NM (talk • contribs) 10:45, May 24, 2019 (UTC)

I haven't edited the article since we opened the discussion so that's not a problem. But it would be helpful if you could participate in the discussion by presenting information or evidence supporting your argument that this article needs to include information that we don't typically include in articles. ElKevbo (talk) 15:22, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

@Roxy the dog: Lets try to discuss this here so we be amicable. @Alamo NM: please respond to @ElKevbo: — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:8c1:8580:16cb:849a:a07b:9a9b:ddea (talk) 21:18, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Why would this improve the article, and how would it help readers to understand the topic? Wikipedia is not a state agency, and this is the English-language Wikipedia.

NMSU's main website is in English, and I cannot find a Spanish version. Searching for Español on the site, most links are either studying Spanish, or studying abroad. This is an English-language article about what appears to be a primarily English-language school. Grayfell (talk) 22:13, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia's not a state agency, but NMSU is an organ of the New Mexico government. To be honest I don't know how many classes were Spanish medium in the past (from 1888), but my rationale for adding Spanish was simply due to the historical ties, much like how all the Louisiana parishes have French in their leads. My reasoning is explained below. WhisperToMe (talk) 15:38, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

And you're not fooling anyone by logging out to continue your edit war. ElKevbo (talk) 22:39, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

We see these false authority arguments on high schools frequently. Kinda surprised to see it on an institution of higher education. Oppose bilingual titling in any form per Grayfell's excellent argument. John from Idegon (talk) 04:50, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

In an effort to gather some consensus here, rather than divert into incivility, perhaps the original author may wish to comment? @WhisperToMe:(talk) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:8c1:8580:16cb:e591:89f4:76a6:d3ad (talk) 19:41, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

This seems fishy, but whoever you are, sign your posts and start talking about the content of the article instead of vague procedural stuff. Consensus is built from discussion. Right now consensus seems to be that this doesn't belong in the lede. I would gladly support a bilingual title if someone can demonstrate or explained how it would benefit readers. Grayfell (talk) 21:44, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

Pings don't ping unless the comment containing the ping is signed properly. Those above in this section didn't. -Roxy, the dog. wooF 21:56, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

Comment: I added Spanish because of its historical ties with the State of New Mexico, described in New_Mexico#Languages (I wrote that section). With Louisiana articles about the parishes, the French names are displayed due to Louisiana's historical ties with the French language, even though it's no longer a working language in government nor is it a language of instruction in the majority of the state's schools. While NM does not have an official language and not all laws in the state nowadays have Spanish versions, there are still government efforts for Spanish speakers, and people who speak Spanish but not English well may serve on a jury. WhisperToMe (talk) 15:38, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

In what language is tuition at this college? Roxy, the dog. wooF 15:42, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Why money is the universal language :-) - In seriousness I will take a look at the school's website to see if it chronicles early history, etc. Sometimes historical language use can differ from the current day; in the late Ottoman Empire French was the common foreign language, and so in Commons:Category:Postcards of the Ottoman Empire you see a lot of dual Ottoman Turkish/French postcards. Likewise I'm interested in knowing the language situation of this particular university in the past. WhisperToMe (talk) 15:46, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

I found a JSTOR article about the early history: https://www.jstor.org/stable/40167379 . This may be the key to learning about the early language situation. WhisperToMe (talk) 15:48, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

I’d wager a suitably small amount that all teaching is in English except for foreign language courses, (and Quantum stuff). Does this have any bearing on our outcome on this issue? Roxy, the dog. wooF 15:55, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Certainly today pretty much all instruction is in English. If a significant amount of instruction in the past would have been in Spanish that could have applied to the discussion, but from what I see in the JSTOR article it was an English medium institution from the start. Back then the founder was criticized for offering Spanish as a second language: From page 35: "The language department and its teaching of Spanish came under attack. President Hadley retorted that a practical knowledge of Spanish was absolutely necessary in the Valley for applying the sciences in the "industries of life."" - President Hadley is Hiram Hadley, the founder.

Then again, Nigeria's official language is English but articles about Nigeria have names in Igbo, Yoruba, and Hausa/Fulani because those are mother tongues of residents; education and government are all in English there. Similarly, Spanish was, and is, the mother tongue of many NM residents, something Hadley referred to, and why the state formerly published all laws in Spanish and why jury duty still allows Spanish speakers.

WhisperToMe (talk) 16:02, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

BTW There was a discussion I had with User:Seb az86556 about the language situation of NM: Talk:New_Mexico/Archive_2#Official_languages WhisperToMe (talk) 16:26, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Geez, y'all sure like to overcomplicate things. Are there sources that use the Spanish names? If so, are they significant? Is the amount of usage and the significance of the sources such that we should include the Spanish name? These are the questions we need to answer. Everything else is just a distraction. John from Idegon (talk) 01:19, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Re: using sources to determine whether a language is important: Sometimes things do get complicated with language policies and usage, because there are predominant native (especially spoken) languages which are not commonly used in formal written sources: Acehnese in Indonesia, Darija in the Maghreb, and Egyptian Arabic in Egypt come to mind. Nonetheless there in all likelihood were Spanish newspapers published in NM in the past, so sources can be used here. WhisperToMe (talk) 15:04, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Agreed. The discussion above is very interesting but much of it appears to be or leaning very strongly in the direction of original research.

My current thinking is that if there is solid evidence that the spanish names of these institutions have been commonly used then this may merit mention in the appropriate section(s) of the articles e.g., history, administration and governance. But I think the bar would be pretty high for this to warrant inclusion in the lede of the articles, especially the very first sentence, which should be reserved for only the most essential information of interest to many readers. ElKevbo (talk) 02:32, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

To resolve that, one would need to dig up newspapers from the period it started. I don't know exactly how many newspapers in English versus Spanish were published, but New Mexico in all likelihood had at least some Spanish newspapers. From the U.S. Library of Congress there were multiple Spanish newspapers published in Las Cruces from 1888. If you like, I could e-mail the Library of Congress or libraries in New Mexico to determine what kind of coverage Spanish newspapers back then gave to the institution (Las Cruces College) and to the later iterations (New Mexico College of Agriculture and Mechanical Arts et al). I would imagine that some Spanish newspapers in Las Cruces covered this institution, but we need to figure out what the media landscape was like. Today there are some Spanish newspapers in NM but I imagine their readership is small, and/or are mainly recent immigrants.

OR is allowed on talk pages themselves ("(This policy of no original research does not apply to talk pages and other pages which evaluate article content and sources, such as deletion discussions or policy noticeboards.) ") but not in articles. The issue is evaluating whether Spanish is a significant enough language for the subject. In this case, since Spanish is a written language used in formal publications and was used in colonial pre-US periods, it should be justified to go by published sources!

WhisperToMe (talk) 15:04, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Of course OR is allowed in Talk; no question there! I just worry that some editors might want to incorporate some of this into the article which would be a problem.

I still don't understand why practices of the state of New Mexico or historical practices should be used to determine how a Wikipedia article is written. Are you suggesting a change to the WP:MOS (or aware of a part of it that I've overlooked? (In fact, a search for similar discussion in WT:MOS and related Talk pages might be very helpful; it's extremely unlikely that this is the first time that this issue has arisen!) ElKevbo (talk) 16:07, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

I didn't have any MOS changes in mind; I was simply considering the existing practice of having French names in all of the Parishes of Louisiana, which historically had usage of French in the south of the state (example: Terrebonne Parish, Louisiana), but today is pretty much English dominant. Another example of historic practices being used to list language names: in Central Europe a lot of cities had experienced language shifts (sometimes due to wars and population transfers), so historic language names are noted there.

BTW the MOS states at Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section#Foreign_language: "If the subject of the article is closely associated with a non-English language, a single foreign language equivalent name can be included in the lead sentence, usually in parentheses."

WhisperToMe (talk) 17:15, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

I checked the MOS archives. I didn't see any particular inquiries about the usage of French in Louisiana-related articles. I'm going to try some other searches to see if they talked about historical language usage. WhisperToMe (talk) 15:27, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for looking into this! It might be worth just asking in Talk to see if any long-time MOS regulars can point us in useful directions. ElKevbo (talk) 15:42, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

You're welcome! See: Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section#Questions_about_Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section#Foreign_language WhisperToMe (talk) 15:59, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

[img.en25-1] "Standard and Poor Report - University data" (PDF). img.en25.com.

[1]