Talk:Benjamin Netanyahu

Transliteration in lead line

Overwrought and incorrect inline Hebrew romanisation. Never would a Hebrew shva be transliterated as a macronised vowel. Please change Binyāmīn Nētanyāhū to Binyamin Netanyahu in accordance with WP:HEBREW. —Biolongvistul (talk) 14:39, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

 Done * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 01:26, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Grammar improvement

You said: "him for imprisoning journalists in a tweet". Surely, that should read: "him in a tweet for imprisoning journalists"

ICJ case

@Totalstgamer I disagree with your reverting of my edit.

The two sentences about the ICJ case deserved the position they had in the article. If a government you are leading gets a case filed against it in the highest international court, that is extremely notable and relevant due to its recency. Also, on mobile it came underneath the info box which is appropriate in my view (it shouldn’t be in the first paragraph).

The reason I created a new section under ‘Biography’ is because this article is ridiculously long. Very few people are going to read all of it. A lead should be short and concise. It makes sense to have a shorter summary of his life first and then go into more detail below.

Please address these points when you have the time or I will add my edit again. Alexanderkowal (talk) 01:23, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

In retrospect, I can live with it being in the shorter version among context. Alexanderkowal (talk) 01:26, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps change the section to ‘Biography (summary)’ Alexanderkowal (talk) 01:28, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Beginning with the ICJ Sentence, the ICJ case is notable, hence its inclusion in the lede, but whether its more notable than Netanyahu's early life, political career and criminal indictments remains to be seen. If the lead is to be seen as a concise telling of the article, the location of content should be based on context more than our determination of notability. As for the creation of the new section, the article is Gigantic, and the general rule with leads as i remember it is roughly four paragraphs. We can without a doubt discuss a shortened lead (As has been done several times over the last few years), but this would include striking out parts of existing paragraphs rather than creating another section within the article.

Please do not alter the article any further until a consensus has been reached. Totalstgamer (talk) 01:28, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@Totalstgamer I agree with your moving of the ICJ case, if his government were convicted then I would expect it to be in the first paragraph.

I do disagree with the length of the lead, I think it would be better organised into a new section called ‘Biography (summary)’. The four paragraphs are too long imo. I haven’t seen another article with such a long lead, usually a paragraph is two sentences. Alexanderkowal (talk) 01:46, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

They do exist though, especially for controversial individuals. Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin, Silvio Berlusconi, Boris Johnson to name a few people with four paragraphs, some longer and some shorter than Netanyahu's. Regardless, Any removals need to be made on the basis that the information is plain irrelevant, which doesn't really happen in this lead imo (since we cut that out a while ago). Feel free to propose a revised version and we'll discuss it tomorrow. Regardless, don't alter the lead until then.

Also, the government being convicted wouldn't automatically move it to first-paragraph status, since that's reserved for basic biographical details and it wouldn't necessarily fit with the flow of the lead Totalstgamer (talk) 01:58, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@Totalstgamer I’m not saying we should remove any information, I’m saying we should move it to a new section and call it ‘Biography (summary)’, allowing the actual lead to be expanded, although given the convention I suppose the status quo is acceptable Alexanderkowal (talk) 02:12, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

I think the lead should just be the first paragraph plus a second paragraph on his politics that is factual and balanced (not done by me, I’d be too biased) Alexanderkowal (talk) 03:21, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

There's no practical reason to do that though. The lead's size is appropriate for the Article's, and there's no real reason to introduce a new section. I say we keep the status quo Totalstgamer (talk) 12:55, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@Totalstgamer I really think the first half of the paragraph on his relationship with Trump should be relegated to lower down in the article, and in its place have a paragraph on his politics and brand of Zionism which contrasts the polarising views people have of him. This would segue nicely into the bit summarising controversies. Alexanderkowal (talk) 13:16, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

The reason I say this is that the status quo means people are left to make assumptions on his politics based on his relationship to trump Alexanderkowal (talk) 13:18, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

I accept that the length of the lead is conventional Alexanderkowal (talk) 13:17, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

I think the part of the lead about Netanyahu's views and relationships is kind of poorly structured tbf. His relationship with Trump is probably not that important and his general views + criminal indictments matter more. I don't really want to write a new paragraph from scratch but id love to hear how you think it could be revised. Totalstgamer (talk) 14:11, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@Totalstgamer I think “Netanyahu… Arab states.” should be scrapped or relegated to further down. In its place perhaps start with how his supporters see him, contrasted with how opponents see him, followed by a neutral sentence on his brand of zionism. This will then segue nicely into the criticisms on settlers that’s there already in my opinion Alexanderkowal (talk) 14:19, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

I think that's a good idea. Feel free to make those changes and i'll give my input Totalstgamer (talk) 15:11, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@Totalstgamer I’m not really knowledgable about Israeli politics and society, I also think I’d struggle to park my bias. Do you feel able to write it? Alexanderkowal (talk) 15:14, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

I'll write it within the next few days if i have time. Totalstgamer (talk) 17:32, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks Alexanderkowal (talk) 17:39, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Mother's name?

How come Tzila Segal is not listed as mother in the biographical on the right? Blueberryfiddles (talk) 22:55, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 April 2024

Change ..."raised in Jerusalem and Philadelphia..." to "...raised in Philadelphia..".

One cannot be raised in two different places halfway across the world in the first 19 years of their life. He was raised in Philadelphia before going to Tel Aviv to join the IDF.

Also please site the reference for his birthplace. There is no objective evidence showing he was born in Tel Aviv. 45.48.132.107 (talk) 07:44, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

 Not done Kindly provide sources to establish the reason to change the subject. ☮️Counter-Strike:Mention 269🕉️^{(🗨️ ● ✉️ ● 📔)} 17:00, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Lede

Please do not remove the lede too long tag before addressing this issue. Clearly, the lede is overdetailed and needs a good trim. Makeandtoss (talk) 11:40, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Suspected war criminal currently at large

Definitely should not be included in the first sentence even if were an actual warrant as opposed to a warrant request. Closhund/talk/ 13:22, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Yeah maybe first paragraph. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 20:24, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

He needs to be widely characterized by reliable sources as a "suspected war criminal currently at large" in order for Wikipedia to use that exact wording. Wikipedia cannot say controversial and potentially defamatory things like that if they are not widely supported by reliable sources, per Wikipedia:BLP. JohnR1Roberts (talk) 13:24, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Even if the arrest warrant was issued, this is not something for the first sentence. He would need to be convicted of war crimes and widely characterized as one first for this to be changed. Mellk (talk) 18:47, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, there are plenty of people protesting (and maybe a number of commentators?) who call him as a war criminal, but there is WP:NPOV. It would not be correct to say that most reliable sources, and given that this is WP:BLP would need to include very high-quality sources, outright call him a war criminal. This is probably in part due to him not being convicted of war crimes by a court. Of course, there are people as you mentioned who would like to see him face court but this is different and more of a matter of opinion rather than a statement of fact. Mellk (talk) 09:21, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Edit request

There is an error in redaction at the beginning of second lead paragraph. Second sentence in paragraph should read (changes in bold):

He returned to Israel in 1967 to join the Israel Defense Forces and served in the Sayeret Matkal special forces as a captain before being honorably discharged.

Could somebody please change it? Thanks--2800:2503:4:DEA7:1:0:C9BA:5F63 (talk) 23:39, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

 Done MadGuy7023 (talk) 23:45, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

His real name is Mileikowsky ?

When i do Google search his name was coming as Mileikowsky (Polish Name) Ricky.martin2786 (talk) 20:24, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

His father's name was Mileikowski: he changed it. It's not Netanyahu's "real name." It's covered in the article. Acroterion (talk) 21:04, 16 June 2024 (UTC)