Talk:National Bolshevik Party/Archive 1
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| Archive 1 |
Alexei Tsetkov as editor of Limonka
i initially got this info from private (reliable) email, but it's the sort of fact that should be easily verifiable by someone fluent in Russian. The online source i found was: http://www.vavilon.ru/lit/feb98-1.html i won't cite the whole paragraph but this is the relevant bit:
- Цветков является ответственным секретарем газеты "Лимонка"
translated roughly
- Tsetkov is the executive secretary of the newspaper "limonka"
IMHO there is no obvious doubt about this claimed fact, that he was the editor for at least some time of Limonka. Boud 01:05, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
NBP
National-Bolshevism does not concern fascism and nazism. The photo certainly for clause{article} picked up old when in a party{set} was glamour goes in style the football hooligan. After in 1998 from a party{set} Dugin such has left much less. Translate clause{article} from Russian, there is more and more more neutral.
If I was not a member of a party{set} having read about fascism and another I would think " it{he} terrible Russian fascism, their purpose of all to kill ". It is ridiculous, in Russia members NBP put{plant} in prison and organize attacks. Thus the program of a party{set} in the speeches Putin, and as uses democratic parties oppositional to Putin. Simply in NBP many fair people... Which are ready to take the weapon in hands for the best the future, for socialism. It срашно... Him{it} it is terrible at all оружее (we not insurgents), but the real protest (capture of buildings, overlapping{blocking} of roads) enters authority in a condition of a panic.
81.222.186.84 15:44, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Mention of Nashi as anti-fascist is absurd. I'm removing it.
Contradiction
In ths article, it says both that the Supreme Court overturned a ban by lower court, and that it upheld the ban. I am confused. someone please look at that.Themalau 09:52, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Commie nazis? which are they?
Recent left-wing shift?
Limonov said recently that Russia today was a "fascist corporatist" state (emphasis on the term "corporatist"). With the banning of the NBP and its participation in Other Russia, hasn't there been a left-wing shift in their policies? On the other hand, are Limonov and Co. merely shifty? Darth Sidious 17:09, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Quick note about whether NazBol officially promotes racism, antisemitism and homophobia
How does this party differ from the current Communist Party of Russia.
for starters the CP isn't banned.
And NBP, inspite of its name, in not really a left-wing party. It is an ultra-nationalist party, somewhat similar to NSDAP.
National Socialists don't fall into left or right categories. Its as much left wing as it is right wing.
I'd just state that CPRF represents ideals similar to National Bolshevik party, but the first is just 'milder', probably due to the fact that the support base of 'official' Communist Party (CPRF) used to be quite broad during the 1990s. NBP has always consisted of ultranationalist/neo-Stalinist fanatics exclusively, and has earned itself notorious reputation for often engaging in acts similar to pre-1933 SA. Constanz 15:22, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
It is worth mentioning that Russian communism (after the collapse of Soviet empire) has become very different from its Western counterpart. The Western communists have adopted many libertarian tendencies (i.e pro-abortion, gay rightist, ecologist, anti-nationalist, anti-racist etc), its Russian counterpart has developed socially conservative: it advocates 'Strong state', empire (Russian word 'Derzhava'), is fiercly nationalist, some extreme Russian communists (from smaller Communist parties) have anti-semitist tendencies etc. Constanz
Quick note. I am not familiar with the antics of this party; I know of Limonov mostly through his literary works and diaries. I find the combination of Nazi color scheme with Communist symbols nauseating and their Russophilia somewhat naive. However, I don't think NazBol are antisemites, racists or homophobes. I did a search of http://limonka.nbp-info.com/ for all permutations of "Jew" and "jewish" - "еврей", "еврейский", etc. And of all the articles with these words, none of them said anything at all negative about Jews or about Judaism. Those same articles frequently derided racists for their attitudes towards workers and immigrants from the Caucus. And it's doubtful that Limonov would condone homophobia - he's openly and unabashedly bisexual. So I think all their 'fascist' posturing is just for show - aesthetics, if you like. They seem to just be anti-Putin and everyone associated with him, whom they consider to be genuine fascists and totalitarians. That's what they're really against.AxmxZ 00:21, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Follow-up: I may be wrong about this, but I think the party might fancy itself something akin to the "White Rose" group. They seem to mostly work towards agitation of the populace against Putin, and their complaints against him are surprisingly lucid. Furthermore, from all indications they are non-violent.AxmxZ 20:32, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Photo of Nazbol Girl in Armband
What happened to the photo of the girl in the red (nazi-looking) armband? I was sure I saw it on this page, but I cannot even find it in the histories of any of the National Bolshevik pages. 70.48.230.45 (talk) 02:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Bolshevik or Bolshevist?
In Russian, the adjective Bolshevik doesn't exist. We say 'Bolshevist'. What is english rule for using this word? Vovanik (talk) 16:24, 18 September 2008 (UTC) The general rule is not to confuse the reader. Ergo I'd use the same word for adjectives as for substantives.79.216.249.172 (talk) 15:15, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
No link to Strasser
I've seen nothing in any of the literature of the main Russian party to suggest they even know who Strasser is. It's clear a National.Bolshevik.Party. and not a NationalBolshevik Party. It would be like saying the historic National Socialist Party in Czechoslovakia is a Nazi party even though it's clear it's a socialist party that's national, not a "national socialist" party. Now I have seen some crappy webpages from groups calling themselves "the National Bolshevik Party of Israel" or "the NBP or Argentia" or whatever and they claim to be supporters of both Limonov and Strasser. I think it's highly likely these groups each consist of a single person with no links to the NBP in Russia. The main NBP in Russia is clearly ideologically vague and they like to play with Fascist imagery. They have no links though, either in imagery or ideology, to anything explicitly Strasserist. The Secretary of Funk (talk) 05:56, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
- Actually, there may be a link between National Bolshevism and Strasserism. Considering Strasserism derives from the left-wing, working-class block of the National Socialist Party, it quite possibly could collide with National Bolshevik ideology in their ideals: they both advocate a "nationalist socialism" (or "Bolshevism," in the NBF's case), but they also seek to preserve some capitalistic elements, like private property. (So I've read somewhere.) That comes very close to Strasserism, come to think about it. --UNSC Trooper (talk) 13:34, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
- They might agree on issues. So what? Stalin made abortion illegal. By your logic, the Republican Party of the United States advocates Stalinism. The National Bolshevik Party is not consciously following Strasser. 75.72.179.110 (talk) 17:50, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
NBP or NPB?
For some reason, the article refers to the National Bolshevik Party both as the NBP and as the NPB. Which of these abbreviations is correct? It certainly can't be both; only one should be used for the sake of consistency. UserVOBO (talk) 04:49, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
NPB was probably a typo by me. Thanks for correcting that.Spylab (talk) 12:47, 13 March 2010 (UTC
Citations added for Party Program
http://web.archive.org/web/20070501182900/eng.nbp-info.ru/cat19/index.html This portion of their website clearly states their party program, and actually clearly defines all points that were made in the areas where citations were needed.--128.138.64.179 (talk) 11:43, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
- But this is old (1994) program of NBP. The new (2004) program is here: http://www.nazbol.ru/rubr28/index0/264.html
Flag
The flag is discribed as a combination of Nazi and Soviet symbolisim, so does anyone know how such extremest right wing symbolisim plays into this (pseudo)communist party?
This party is obviously nationalist but does that alone make it neo-fascist? I've seen lots of stuff to suggest they like Stalin but nothing to suggest they like Hitler.
- Good point. Though I'd caught all the grossly POV stuff, but I missed the flag. The article needs sourcing and a lot more info, if you have time to contribute. Dsol 22:41, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
- No, the image used in the article is indeed the official flag of the NBP. I have seen it multiple times on Russian television, namely on the news program of the Russian channel "NTV Mir", when they were covering demonstrations organized by NBP members. The flag is not a POV issue. Here's the source: [1]. --Vargher 14:45, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
- The flag wasn't exactly the POV issue before, but rather the former caption on it, which claimed it "combined Nazi and Soviet symbolism." Dsol 15:11, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
- Well, it does. It obviously is derived from the flag of the nazi party, I don't think that's POV. -- 138.246.7.40 21:34, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
- It's very POV. Saying red backgrounds and white circles are Nazi symbols is a strech.
- Well, it does. It obviously is derived from the flag of the nazi party, I don't think that's POV. -- 138.246.7.40 21:34, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
- The flag wasn't exactly the POV issue before, but rather the former caption on it, which claimed it "combined Nazi and Soviet symbolism." Dsol 15:11, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
- Read their declarations in their webpage [2] and the first paragraph of Wikipedia article on fascism. The NBP has all characteristics of fascism except for one: anti-communism (which is, however, not a necessary one). As for Nazism, it is clear beyond any reasonable doubt that they WANT to hint to it with their flag. Of course, they're not fond of Hitler: after all, they're Russian -- not German -- nationalists. But that taken into account, their ideological differences from Nazis are relatively minor. Lebatsnok 11:05, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
- No, the image used in the article is indeed the official flag of the NBP. I have seen it multiple times on Russian television, namely on the news program of the Russian channel "NTV Mir", when they were covering demonstrations organized by NBP members. The flag is not a POV issue. Here's the source: [1]. --Vargher 14:45, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
- NazBol is an incredibly difficult to define and fit into a box. They've been the subject of my academic research for part of this (ending) semester, and I still am unable to clearly define them without a long-winded answer. No, stating that the flag contains Nazi Germany symbolism is not POV, as both the use of armbands that are strikingly similar to those worn during Nazi Germany and the clear alignment with the ideologies of German National Bolsheviks in the early 20th century give this away (and many outlets describe their symbols as taking from Nazi Germany's symbols, thus it can be said to be generally agreed upon). NazBol, best defined, could be said to be a Eurasian and anti-Atlanticism movement that does not base Russian nationality on an ethnic identity. They are different from Dugin and his Eurasian Youth Movement in that primarily they disagree upon the motives of the Putin/Medvedev administrations. I'm also fairly certain that they've employed pro-Stalin chanting, though this could be a sort of "shock effect", similar to one of the reasons I believe they maintain the usage of Nazi Germany symbols.--128.138.64.179 (talk) 11:53, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
"Repression of NBP"
This section of the article is extremely biased and contains several spelling and grammar errors. This section tries to paint the NazBols as political prisoners being jailed for their beliefs, yet it is made clear in the section just above it that they have engaged in several terrorist attacks on government property and even on polling stations. I don't know too much about them other than the fact that they try to be Stalinist and Nazi at the same time. The second sentence in the article is a direct plagiarization of the website nazbol.cc. Any thoughts? Commissarusa (talk) 23:46, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
- Most of national bolsheviks in jail are prisoners of conscience. They are imprisoned because they are active in non-violent direct actions against Putins regime.
- National Bolshevik Party (Limonovs) istn't nazi, isn't racist, istn't xenophobic.
- One of the most fascinating aspects of NazBol is that it, unlike groups such as the Eurasian Youth Union and Nashi, experiences very heavy backlash from law enforcement. This may be due in part that, according Astrid Tuminez ("The Radical Right in Post-Communist Russian Politics" p.185), the KGB (and now FSB) has strongly support an idea of Russian nationalism and fascism, and although NazBol is a nationalist group, they are by no means the traditional nationalists you find with the pro-Kremlin youth organizations. There definitely exists a certain level of political repression towards NazBol, but the extent and reasoning for which is very difficult to truthfully describe, and any attempt at such will likely result in a biased conspiracy theory.--128.138.64.179 (talk) 12:07, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
Eurasia
At least judging by the materials on their website, the "Eurasia" concept is no longer part of their official doctrine or programme. It seems to have been faded out after Dugin left. Can anyone clarify what is the current status of it?
- From their "Program of the National-Bolshevik Party" official website page:
- "THE PURPOSE
- 3. Global purpose of National-bolshevism is the creation of Empire from Vladivostok up to Gibraltar on the basis of Russian civilization. The purpose will be achieved in four stages: à) Transformation of Russian Federation into the national state Russia by Russian Revolution, b) Joining of the territories of former republics of the Soviet Union, inhabit by Russians c) Rallying around of Russians Eurasian nations of the former USSR. d) Creation of huge continental Empire."
- --128.138.64.179 (talk) 12:10, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
- From their "Program of the National-Bolshevik Party" official website page:
Far-right or far-left?
Not sure what to call it. They clearly idolize Lenin and Stalin in their rhetoric and program, but they also toy with some fascistic ideals like ultra-nationalism and para-Nazi paraphernalia. Does that make them far-left, or more symbolically far-right? --UNSC Trooper (talk) 13:37, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
- It probably makes them Third Position.Spylab (talk) 22:56, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
- They are not Third Positionists. They are very much second positionists, that is, Communists. They're name is "Bolshevik" that means "Communist" and they use a hammer and sickle as their symbol, that's also Communist 75.72.179.110 (talk) 03:15, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
The NBP is clearly far-right. It's an anti-communist ideology based off racist, ignorant, and rightist ideals. They're not communist at all! --24.61.49.27 (talk) 23:38, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
Anti-authoritarianism
Today, NBP has openly anti-authoritarian ideology http://nazbol.ru/rubr28/index0/264.html
Ummm...no. The goal of the NBP is to create an empire. That's one of the most authoritarian goals there is. Let's have a source OTHER than the site itself first. Commissarusa (talk) 21:01, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
- But NBP support stopping a war in Chechnya: http://nazbol.ru/rubr28/index0/264.html (http://www.nbp-info.ru/new/photo/230204/18.htm on banner: "Revolution in Russia, not a war in Chechnya") —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.9.143.97 (talk) 12:03, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
whatever the NBP is anti-authoritarian or authoritarian, they think that the war in chechnya must be stopped, so we will be only arguing about a political problem depending on the ideology of each other and of what is autoritarianism for all people here.
--Breizhcatalonia1993 (talk) 11:26, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
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Logo of the NBP
There are some controversions about coat (logo) of the National Bolshevik Party. So it should be clarified... The "two-headed eagle with hammer and sickle" (stylized on nazi eagle) was never was never used by russian National Bolshevik Party, and never declared as its official logo in any documents etc. Official logo of the NBP is stylized grenade F1 called in Russian "limonka" (Source: Programm of the National Bolshevik Party 1994; let's see point 26 in the Programm: https://web.archive.org/web/20071017132224/http://nbp-info.ru/cat106/index.html)
Vote: Merge The Other Russia of Liminov into this
i will start this vote here, be sure to explain reasoning for or against. i listed on that article talk page that it is basically just a stub about the recent history of this party and doesnt need a separate article since its not even seemingly noteworthy enough to be filled with new info as of yet on here. 184.71.74.78 (talk) 06:27, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose — RS coverage of The Other Russia is sufficient. While The Other Russia may be seen as a continuation of the National Bolshevik Party, the articles of successor organisations are generally not merged with their defunct predecessors unless their coverage is insignificant and content meager, neither of which is true for the article for The Other Russia. Yue🌙 07:49, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
Logo of the NBP
There are some controversions about coat (logo) of the National Bolshevik Party. So it should be clarified... The "two-headed eagle with hammer and sickle" (stylized on nazi eagle) was never used by russian National Bolshevik Party, and never declared as its official logo in any documents etc. Official logo of the NBP is stylized grenade F1 called in Russian "limonka" (Source: Programm of the National Bolshevik Party 1994; let's see point 26 in the Programm: https://web.archive.org/web/20071017132224/http://nbp-info.ru/cat106/index.html) — Preceding unsigned comment added by InfoNR (talk • contribs) 14:21, 3 February 2023 (UTC)