Talk:Narragansett Pacer

This breed is mentioned in The Last of the Mohicans by James Fenimore Cooper.

"'Uncas was bold enough to say, that the beasts ridden by the gentle ones,' continued Hawkeye, glancing his eyes, not without curious interest, on the fillies of the ladies, 'planted the legs of one side on the ground at the same time, which is contrary to the movements of all trotting four-footed animals of my knowledge, except the bear. And yet here are horses that always journey in this manner, as my own eyes have seen, and as their trail has shown for twenty long miles.'"

Was this a characteristic of this breed? Cooper goes on to say that the Narragansett was sought after in early colonial America for its sure-footedness on rugged terrain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.226.16.253 (talk) 18:34, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Um, yes, that describes the pace, from which the breed derived the "Pacer" part of its name. Montanabw^(talk) 20:56, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

I know of no information or facts of this breed having any influence on the Morgan Horse. Ryttar 1 Feb.2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryttar (talk • contribs) 10:39, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

There is a connection, I threw in a few basic sources for now. WPEQ doesn't have enough people to put out all brushfires, but the sources here will help others who may want to improve the article. Montanabw^(talk) 20:09, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Narragansett Pacer/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:51, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

I'll make straightforward copyedits as I go and jot queries below. Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:51, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

The Narragansett Pacer is an extinct horse breed, and was the first breed developed in the United States - any way you can avoid using the word "breed" twice is a bonus....

Reworded, see if that helped. Montanabw^(talk) 19:58, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

The last Pacer, a mare, died around 1880 -presumably "The last purebred Pacer, a mare, died around 1880" (?)

Not sure if that exceeds source, Dana's call. Not sure if there was a studbook or an emphasis on purebreeding--MTBW

As Montana says, there wasn't a studbook that really kept track. I've tweaked this a little bit to make it the last known Pacer, as without the studbook you really can't tell for sure. Dana boomer (talk) 20:57, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Okay, that's fine - gotta work wit dem sources :) Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:36, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

The breed was used for "pacing races" in Rhode Island - why the quotation marks here?

Not sure if the horses were actually pacing -- lingo of the time and the terms we use today don't always line up. Dana may have more to add on this--MTBW

There is doubt that the Pacer was actually a pacing horse - more likely that it ambled. So, they weren't technically "pacing" races, but this is what the source calls them and presumably what they were called in the lingo of the times. Dana boomer (talk) 20:57, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Okay, fair enough. Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:36, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Any idea on why they became extinct, or was it that the horses were just so widely dispersed there were no purebreds any more and just strains incorporated into other breeds (??)

Probably, but I'll let Dana check her source material.--MTBW

So many were sold out of the country that very few breeding stock remained in the US. These were often bred to other types, and as such created several breeds as we know them today, and eventually the "pure" type of Pacer just died out. Dana boomer (talk) 20:57, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

i.e. so they were diluted out of existence (to borrow a chemical term :)) - the article it stands doesn't say anything like that, and it would be great if something could be succinctly added - even a sentence to lead as it is a pretty key point. Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:36, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Other breeds indirectly influenced by the Narragansett Pacer i.. - means containing genetic material?

Hi Cas, yes, genetic contributions. Horse people like to say "influence." We're weird that way ;-) --MTBW

Basically the Narragansett was used to create breed A, then breed A was used to create breed B, hence "indirectly". Do you have a better way to word this? Dana boomer (talk) 20:57, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Okay, my horse stuff is rusty - nearly 30 years since my grandma died and her Arabians scattered to the four winds :( Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:36, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi Cas - Thanks for the review. I'm not sure if you're done or not, but Montana and I have replied to your comments so far above. There aren't a lot of definite answers on this breed (or really much information available in general), so I doubt my answers are really all that helpful. But I tried... :) Dana boomer (talk) 20:57, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Ultimately, I think we're just about over the line, but some brief statement which explains their extinction is key to this article - surely we can find one (???) Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:36, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Did a quick check, Dana-- you'll have to see if these pass muster as RS: One is pretty solid, the other a big iffy: 1) IMH page: "They were bred in great numbers in the seventeen hundreds. As colonial roads were improved, folks drove more and rode less. Then the pacing fashion, and eventually the Narragansett Pacer, became extinct." 2) The Official Horse Breeds Standards Guide: The Complete Guide to the Standards of All North American Equine Breed Associations: "The prolific use of Narragansetts to produce Thoroughbreds, combined with their heavy export by Spanish colonists to the Caribbean islands, led to the extinction of pure Narragansett Pacers." --however, this source is about the American Saddlebreds, and argues that they died out by the Revolutionary war era, so may just be breed propaganda-- best you check the details. Oh, and also found this fun and funky little site: [1] Montanabw^(talk) 00:46, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

I've added a sentence to what was already there; is it enough? Montana, that last link looks interesting and is a fun read, but it is self-published and includes a lot of speculation, so I am wary about including it in any articles. Dana boomer (talk) 18:13, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

yeah, it'll do me :) Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:34, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

1. Well written?:

Prose quality:

Manual of Style compliance:

2. Factually accurate and verifiable?:

References to sources:

Citations to reliable sources, where required:

No original research:

3. Broad in coverage?:

Major aspects:

Focused:

4. Reflects a neutral point of view?:

Fair representation without bias:

5. Reasonably stable?

No edit wars, etc. (Vandalism does not count against GA):

6. Illustrated by images, when possible and appropriate?:

Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

Overall:

Pass or Fail:

Cool, thanks Cas! Dana boomer (talk) 21:48, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, Cas, you're a gem! Montanabw^(talk) 23:08, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

new link

http://www.walkerswest.com/History/MysteriousNarragansettPacer.htm Arydberg (talk) 03:11, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

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Pacer illustration

I added an illustration that actually depicts a Pacer; it was confusing to have a picture of the Bay in the lead. It is not the best image, but seems to be the only one showing a Pacer. If no one has issue with the image, eventually I could crop and de-yellow it a bit. I also added Alt text that could use some review. Strangerpete (talk) 13:44, 21 November 2021 (UTC)