Talk:Naming of the Americas

Article creation

I proposed creating this article at the Richard Amerike talk page in 2014 and at the Americas talk page in 2015. There being no objections (but equally no agreement), I decided to take the plunge and create this.

I think the Richard Amerike page should be merged here. He is not notable apart from the fact of Hudd's fringe theory.

There is a lot more that could be covered in this article. For example, Amerigo being honoured rather than Columbus.--Jack Upland (talk) 01:12, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

I should note, belatedly, that the merger was reversed due to lack of support.--Jack Upland (talk) 22:06, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Merica star

The section has at least 6 sources and at least one of the authors of The Hiram Key lectured at university. It is no greater a fringe theory than Richard Amerike however the fringe theory template is only placed on this section. I think the template should be removed. Please share any concerns. Mcvti (talk) 00:19, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Historical information related to the Masons is generally considered fringe on Wikipedia. I added the tag rather than simply remove the information outright as a courtesy to you, as it was still being worked on at the time. However, I still question whether it should be in the article. If you believe that the Richard Amerike claim is at the same level of "fringeness", you can tag it as such or remove it. However, from what I can tell, most of the sources cited are not connected with Amerike in anyway, and are secondary sources reporting the theory. The same cannot be said, as far as I can tell, about the "Merica star" material, which cites sources connected to Masonic organizations in some way. (That's not a criticism of you, but merely a questioning of the suitablity of the sources to report netrually on the content as Wikipedia requires.) BilCat (talk) 00:32, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

The sources I added today are not masonic and there is also a secondary source from a local news outlet. It is true that both authors of The Hiram Key are freemasons, but as far as I know, at least one of them lectures at university. Other sources I added discuss this theory, even though it may seem fringe, it is worthy of being added if numerous sources discuss it whether it is dismissed by them or accepted. The source from The Overseas American Academy is also not masonic. Mcvti (talk) 01:00, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Would it help if I removed the ties to freemasonry, since the article from the Peninsula Pulse discusses the naming of America without mentioning freemasonry here and instead discusses ties to the Essenes and Mandaeans? Mcvti (talk) 02:33, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

I have rewritten the section removing all links to freemasonry and added new reliable sources copied from Essenes and Mandaeans articles. I hope this solves the issue. Mcvti (talk) 02:43, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

@Mcvti I've deleted the section. Peninsula Pulse is not a WP:RS for this. I can't even verify the existence of "The Overseas American Academy ", "Celebrating The 500th Anniversary Of The Baptism Of America," - how did you check it? This all looks like your own research, which we can't use. See WP:NOR. We need reliable sources connecting the naming of America with this star. Doug Weller talk 14:35, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Actually none of it is my original research since the info is in the article from the Peninsula Pulse and The Hiram Key, but I understand if it does not meet WP:RS Mcvti (talk) 15:07, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

If the sources don't mention the naming of America it's still original research. Doug Weller talk 15:11, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

The article in the Peninsula Pulse is about the naming of America by Steve Grutzmacher and clearly mentions 'Merica'. The Hiram Key by Knight & Lomas also mention the naming of America with the star 'Merica'. I assure you this is not my original research. However, I understand if the sources do not meet WP:RS Mcvti (talk) 15:20, 6 May 2022 (UTC)