Talk:Moving Earth

Change article name – perhaps to something like "Relocation of Earth"

I think that this article's name should be changed, possibly to something like "Relocation of Earth". Other suggestions are welcome. The main problem I have with the current title is its inclusion of "the" – but "Moving Earth" doesn't really sound like a good article title to me. To put this into perspective, imagine someone saying "the Jupiter". Now, obviously, "earth" can refer to both soil and the planet; that's probably why "the" is often included. However, it's more correct to simply say "Earth". Please let me know your thoughts about this. Thanks, DesertPipeline (talk) 15:39, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

DesertPipeline, the title should reflect common usage, and I can't find any such usage for relocation of Earth. Searching for "Moving Earth" in Google scholar gives articles on excavation equipment. What about "Moving Earth's orbit"? StarryGrandma (talk) 00:07, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

User:StarryGrandma: That might work. Or how about "Modifying Earth's orbit"? One of the article's sources uses that word. DesertPipeline (talk) 09:56, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

DesertPipeline, "moving" is the one most likely to be used as a search term. Adding "orbit" makes it easy to leave out "the". Too bad we didn't name our planet something other than the ground beneath us. StarryGrandma (talk) 12:42, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

User:StarryGrandma: I apologise for my late response. I'm going to start a move request and see what name people think works best. Regards, DesertPipeline (talk) 12:04, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 28 October 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved per consensus. No such user (talk) 15:29, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

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Moving the Earth → ? – This article title currently uses the word 'the'. Referring to Earth with the definite article is inconsistent with the other planets of the Solar System (consider 'the Jupiter' or 'the Mars'. Therefore, it is requested that a new name be determined which avoids the definite article. Proposed titles from the informal discussion on this talk page are "Relocation of Earth", "Moving Earth's orbit", and "Modifying Earth's orbit". Other suggestions are welcome. DesertPipeline (talk) 12:23, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

Proposals for new title

Add a new line in this subsection beginning with * and state your proposal for a new title, signing your comment with ~~~~ at the end.

Survey

Begin a new line in this subsection with *'''<The title you feel is best>''' or, if you think the article should not be moved, *'''Oppose moving'''. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles. Sign your comment with ~~~~.

• Oppose perfectly fine as is. Don't need the above template either. In ictu oculi (talk) 20:47, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose Descriptive English grammar indicates that the definite article is fine in front of "Earth". English was never a terribly consistent language. Leave this article title as is, it does not violate any rules. --Bejnar (talk) 01:41, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

oppose per wp:ue—blindlynx (talk) 20:19, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

• perfectly fine as is. (Comment by in ictu oculi)

  Descriptive English grammar indicates that the definite article is fine in front of "Earth". (Comment by Bejnar)

  User:In ictu oculi, User:Bejnar: The definite article preceding "Earth" is a grammatical structure from a time when humanity presumed that all the other planets were stars, and Earth was the only real place in existence (besides spiritual locations). They can hardly be blamed for such a mistake, considering they had no telescopes or other means to see that the other planets were, in fact, planets. The definite article was placed in front of "Earth" because it was considered special – a human-centric bias which we clearly still exhibit today. But we have the means to reduce our biases, if we are careful; and there is no better place to do so as much as possible as an encylopedia, which people use to learn. Remove the definite article before "Earth" from Wikipedia, and perhaps people will learn to say just "Earth" naturally, just as they say "Jupiter", "Mars", "Neptune", et cetera. I feel that your reasons for opposition are not based on logical consideration of the issue. DesertPipeline (talk) 12:13, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

  No, they are based on English grammar which is not logical. Do you pronounce the "t" in "often"? Do you object to the grammar in the phrase: "If I was going to the store" ? --Bejnar (talk) 16:34, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

  they are based on English grammar which is not logical

  User:Bejnar: And it will remain that way if we have attitudes like that. However, something not being incorrect grammatically does not mean it is correct otherwise. "The earth" is correct grammatically because you could be referring to soil. When referring to the planet, there should be no definite article, for the reasons I have explained. DesertPipeline (talk) 18:43, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

• On investigation I find that Moving the Earth, Saving the Earth, etc. are as common in Google Scholar as titles without "the". I now see no reason to move the article. Wikipedia reflects common usage (and common academic grammar). It is not our place to try to improve the language. StarryGrandma (talk) 19:03, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
• User:Blindlynx: The subsection you linked to does not apply to this context. Did you mean to link something else? DesertPipeline (talk) 05:24, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

  Your rational for moving this article and subsequent follow ups are based on objections to english grammar, this wiki is written in english and the current tile is in english that does not need to be corrected—blindlynx (talk) 12:19, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

  User:Blindlynx: My rationale is based on consistency. No other planet in the Solar System is preceded by the definite article; it would only sound correct with Mercury, because there is both mercury (an element) and Mercury (the planet). "The" would suggest the element, just as "the earth" suggests soil. DesertPipeline (talk) 12:48, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

We use english not what you think english should be—blindlynx (talk) 12:54, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

In general, see Linguistic prescription#Criticisms.  --Bejnar (talk) 16:25, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.