Talk:Motorhead

motorhead may well be a localised definition of a person who ab/uses amphetamine, (btw, speedfreak/speed freak is far more common in current usage) why should it's inclusion be merited against all others?. --Alf ^melmac 16:29, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

It's included just for completeness and also because it's the oriin of the band name. // Liftarn

Hmm I can see that if there were an article about speed freak as there is about what I and my generation (and I guess most of those older than me) call potheads, it would be worthy of inlcusion. The place for the info on the origins of the band name should really be in the article about the band. --Alf ^melmac 16:46, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Disambig vs. Redirect

Is there any good reason for making this page a disambig? I'm pretty sure that the existence of a barely-known video game and an alternate term for an amphetamine user do not count as good reasons. The band is going to get 99% of the clicks, and the video game can be redirected to from Motörhead's page. G Rose 14:10, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Not really. Since there exists no disambiguity between Motörhead and Motorhead I propose to move Motorhead (video game) to Motorhead. The band can be redirected to from this page. Is that agreeable? --Frodet 15:34, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

A disambig is better since it does not give more weight to either the band nor the game. // Liftarn

If someone's looking for the band's article, they're hardly going to type a 'ö' character are they? I can almost garuntee you that everyone searching for the band's article will type Motorhead, without the umlaut. Therefore, shouldn't this page redirect to Mötorhead? With a link at the top of the Mötorhead page to the videogame? Because I find it very odd how a little-known game should be given priority over a widely-known and very popular heavy metal band. HK51 09:36, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I can't believe this argument is still raging on. Ditto what HK51 said - with bells on! OR - the disambig page (per Liftarn). Either will do - but not what Frodet is proposing. Jeez, haven't we got anything better to do anyway? Bubba hotep 09:53, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I was making a point, and the point is that, while there is no real disambiguity between the two and my proposal is still justified, who's to decide which is more important: a little-known heavy metal outfit, or a popular videogame? Everyone searching for the videogame have no reason to search for anything else than "motorhead". Right now we have a encyclopedic compromise which is, to me, agreeable. --Frodet 10:23, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't know about yourself, Frodet, but my keyboard does not have a key which types out an "ö" - so, if and when I want to search for the band, I will use an "o" instead. Given that this is the English language wikipedia, I'd imagine that most people will be in the same boat on that one - if we were on the German wikipedia, you may have had a point.

Also, Motörhead is one of the most wellknown names in heavy metal, if I were to ask random people on the street, most of them would have heard of the band. I can't say the same for the game. I'm changing it to go straight to the band page, as this is frankly ridiculous. LupusCanis 11:49, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

The ö is not limited to German. I asume that in English we still want an encyclopedia which maintains correct spelling. Right now the search phrase "motorhead" presents both subjects equally. I don't see the problem.

I'm reverting. Se also Hüsker Dü vs. Husker Du. This is an encyclopedia, not a popularity contest. --Frodet 12:11, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

The issue is not spelling correctness - it's about convenience to Wikipedia users. Having "Motorhead" redirect to the band's page is not going to mislead anybody about the proper spelling of the band or the video game.

In terms of convenience, I can easily give you a quantitative analysis of the efficiency of the disambig versus that of redirecting to Motörhead. By redirecting to Motörhead, 99% of users typing in "Motorhead" will be spared an extra click. By putting up a disambig, 100% of users will have to click twice.

Finally, a disambig page should contain more than just two options. The reason that having redirect links above an article was conceived is so that frivolous disambig pages like this one wouldn't have to exist.

Please keep this as a redirect to Motörhead. G Rose 13:10, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Please don't as it give undue weight to a band. // Liftarn

Redirecting to the band's page does not give the band undue weight. Putting up a disambiguation page solely because a stub article exists on a video game does give that video game undue weight.

Let's say someone were to produce an obscure movie called "George W. Bush". Would it be giving undue weight to the President of the United States to not have a disambig page asking users whether they wanted to view the president's article or the movie's article? G Rose 15:46, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I've put a link on both discussion pages (Motorhead (video game) and Motörhead) because this is hard to find sometimes! By the way, there is obviously a need to disambiguate because otherwise the video game would just have been called "Motorhead" wouldn't it? Instead, it is indeed "Motorhead (video game)". Bubba hotep 12:24, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

It was just called Motorhead (see history of Motorhead (video game) [1]). Then someone nominated it for AfD, before someone else moved it. --Frodet 15:54, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Just as a point of interest, Liftarn, what is your interest in this? I see your user page says "I simply don't have the time and energy to get involved in editing fights" - so what makes this one the exception rather than the rule? I'm as bored with it as you probably are, so how can this be resolved? Is there any due process? Bubba hotep 13:33, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Deep Purple is also a real colour, I would hope most people still think Iron Maiden is amongst other things, a torture device, and Bach is one of a possible list of composers as long as my arm. We're here for readers, well I hope we are anyway - this 30+ year old band is the subject of a main category, and sub-categories, has well over fifty related pages, which will be, in a lot of cases, the actual articles readers will be trying to navigate to - inclusive of all the unofficial releases this band is in the public's awareness because of over 300 records, thousands of performances across the world, countless radio shows, air play on radio every single day, the guests of shows and films, and even having their music appear in video game soundtracks - the value argument for the video game is what exactly? --Alf ^melmac 16:46, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Ooh, Iron Maiden! Good one — I'll add it to my ammunition :). Perhaps Liftarn would like to go and put them in a disambig. We'll see how big a nest of irate Maiden-heads he stirs up there ;). G Rose 16:54, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes Iron maiden is a good example. Is someone came to the article Iron maiden and was looking for Iron Maiden it's just a click away. The same idea applies here. If someone came to Motorhead and was looking for Motörhead it's just a click away. No need for redirect and/or disambig pages. // Liftarn

I'm not sure what you mean by "no need for redirect and/or disambig pages", Liftarn — it's going to be one or the other — but the point Alf is making is that "Iron maiden" currently redirects to the band Iron Maiden's page for the exact reason that I and others think "Motorhead" should redirect to the band Motörhead's page. G Rose 17:22, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Iron maiden is at present a disambiguation page, irritatingly enough for those heavy metal fans, but understandable as there are quite a few posssible uses, here there are two objects, which one is more like Bach? --Alf ^melmac 17:12, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah... I thought "Iron Maiden" went to the band's page at first. It used to be like that at one point, but was changed.

At any rate, I am currently resting my argument on my "George W. Bush" analogy, as well as the argument of the frivolousness of a two-option disambig. G Rose 17:22, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Liftarn - to prevent you misunderstanding me, I made no bones when the video game was at it's original place, but this disambig is just nonsense, I do actually prefer your solution of moving the video game back to Motorhead and having a link to a band as opposed to having this disambiguation - though my common sense tells me that Motorhead should be a redirect to the band and the video game should be linked to at a different title. --Alf ^melmac 17:27, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

The best would be to have two article, one for the band (Motörhead) and one for the game (Motorhead). Since the names are different it should be no problem. If we can't reach consensus about that the second best is to make Motorhead into a disambig page. // Liftarn

"When there is a well known primary meaning for a term or phrase (indicated by a majority of links in existing articles and consensus of the editors of those articles that it will be significantly more commonly searched for and read than other meanings), then that topic may be used for the title of the main article, with a disambiguation link at the top. Where there is no such clearly dominant usage there is no primary topic page.". Oh, someones beaten me to it below, I see. Bubba hotep 21:01, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Are you quoting a Wikipedia policy there, Bubba? If so, I'd like to have a link to that for reference. G Rose 21:47, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

WP:DAB. I wouldn't like to be remembered for quoting policy. I am anti-authoritarian at the best of times! ;o) Bubba hotep 22:01, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Page stats of both pages generated on 12/10/06

Stats created using aka's web tool

Motörhead:

number of edits 635

number of minor edits 207 (32.6%)

first edit 01/04/2002 15:16 (The Anome)

most recent edit 10/09/2006 22:47 (Bubba hotep)

mean time between edits 65:44 h

unique editors 266 (139 IP addresses)

average number of edits per user 2.4

number of edits within last day 0

number of edits within last week 20

number of edits within last month 59

number of edits within last year 388

Motorhead (video game):

number of edits 44

number of minor edits 11 (25.0%)

first edit 12/02/2002 15:28 (Dhum Dhum)

most recent edit 10/10/2006 18:40 (G Rose)

mean time between edits 32.0 d

unique editors 26 (6 IP addresses)

average number of edits per user 1.7

number of edits within last day 0

number of edits within last week 1

number of edits within last month 17

number of edits within last year 43

RfC responses

I propose that we strike this issue from the RfC list as it doesn't look like anyone else is going to respond - 6:1 in favour of maintaining the status quo (no, not a music based pun). Bubba hotep 13:07, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I have struck the RfC item from the list. Bubba hotep 19:00, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Strongly support the current state (Motorhead redirects to Mötorhead with a note "For the video game, see..." at the top of the page). Most english-speakers will be looking for the band, but will not type the umlaut because they are typically unaware that the name uses one, and may be unfamiliar with typing umlauts on US/UK keyboards. --mcld 20:49, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Strongly support the current state (Motorhead>Mötorhead redirect) per Mc1d Bubba hotep 21:03, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Strongly support the current state (Motorhead>Motörhead redirect). Edwardsdl 23:09, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Strongly object the current state (Motorhead>Motörhead redirect). Two different things with two different spellings. I don't see the problem. Compare Iron maiden/Iron Maiden, Hüsker Dü/Husker Du and Shreck/Shrek. As per WP:DAB#Top links. // Liftarn 10:45, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Strongly support "Motorhead" redirecting to Motörhead per WP:DAB - Primary Topic. G Rose 05:07, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Strongly support "Motorhead" redirecting to Motörhead per common sense, DAB Primary topic and page stats (see above) --Alf ^melmac 12:53, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Strongly support as per above. HK51 16:43, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps a bit late, but strongly support per above. Trebor 10:42, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Disambig

I see the discussion above for the reasoning for this page redirecting straight to Motörhead, with that page having a disambig at the top. But the point is, there are now far too many Motorhead articles to be accomodated at the top of the Motörhead page, there's even 4 associated with band. Also, let's kill this myth that motorhead means an amphetamine user, it never has - here's Lemmy: "The name comes from an old American slang for speedfreak, or lover of speed as in cars, etc. Vroom vroom."[2] — Drwhawkfan (talk) 15:29, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I remember fixing "what links here" at the time of the last discussion, I've just done so again and every single one was for the band article, except one user page that needed the game to be disambiguated. What would have been better is to have made it at Motorhead (disambiguation) and left the redirect as was.--Alf ^melmac 16:33, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough Drwhawkfan (talk) 18:17, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Excellent thanks. I think readers are much better served by having the dab there and going direct to article when typed in search sans umlaut. Thanks for the recent work on the MH discography pages, I'm still waiting for a clear day to sit down with my vinyl records and laptop and uphold my earlier promise in checking the listings for "Lemmy Kilmister" (and/or otherwise).--Alf ^melmac 18:26, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I think it's great the way it is now. People who are gonna type in Motorhead are most likely gonna want the band. The disambig at the top of the article will deal with any users who are looking for something else. Navnløs (talk) 19:17, 26 November 2007 (UTC)