Talk:Montachusett Regional Vocational Technical School

External links modified (February 2018)

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090830012520/http://www.montytech.net/community/staff/ to http://www.montytech.net/community/staff/
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Detailed listing of programs and other information

An unregistered editor is insisting that this article include information such as the address of this school, the name of an Admissions Specialist, and a detailed list of academic programs. This information does not belong in this article. If any editor believes differently, please discuss why you believe we should make an exception for this article. Thanks! ElKevbo (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

I have had a look at the text added by the unknown editor, and would like to welcome him to the world of Wikipedia and suggest that he registers, so he has a user page where he can explain his interests and dreams, and a talk page where we can give him useful advice and pass messages on. What he has done on this page is not uncommon- we call it making test edits. Most need to be deleted- preferably by the guy who made them.

The first thing I would say to the new editor, is that while anyone can edit wikipedia- there are guidelines and standards that must be followed. Wikipedia:WikiProject Schools/Article guidelines, and Wikipedia:WikiProject Schools/Article guidelines#OS is a good place to start. There they will see that we don't list staff names, and lists of courses, and extra-curricular are seen as advertising and not allowed. I advise every newbie editor to look at similar articles and explain bits about their school that would seem strange to a reader in a different continent.

Experienced editors read the talk pages, and are willing to assist. Try out your ideas and argue your point here ClemRutter (talk) 10:25, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Going point-by-point:

1. Aa a general rule of thumb, the address of a subject is not included in the article. However, {{Infobox school}} includes fields for it, so this may be something that needs addressed at the project level.
2. The principal is usually listed and vice-principals may be, but that's often done in the infobox. The admissions specialist is usually outside the limited list of key staff people who get mentioned.
3. The list of academic programs...it is a regional vocational tech school, so it's not unreasonable to list its vocational programs, especially when they aren't standard offerings for other high schools in the region.
4. Many articles on high school do list the sports they compete in, so that's not an unreasonable addition.

Net result, I think there's a middle ground somewhere. Perhaps the academic programs section could be turned into prose, so it isn't just a(nother) list in the article. —C.Fred (talk) 14:31, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

I disagree about the unsourced listings of details that are best left for the school's website and materials. ElKevbo (talk) 17:18, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

The athletic teams can readily be sourced to the MIAA. —C.Fred (talk) 18:16, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

@C.Fred: Can you help me out on this- I genuinely do not understand how the MIAA reference given justifies the list of subjects with out doing OR. I have tagged it as cn and this has been deleted without explanation- the only implied explanation in precedence in other un-named artcles --ClemRutter (talk) 09:38, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

@ClemRutter: I think the problem is with the MIAA page design. I prefer a large font size and almost missed seeing the list at the bottom of the page, which has a scroll bar on the right. In order to see it, though, and access the scroll bar, I had to reduce the font size in my browser using the (control +) keys. Then I was able to see all the varsity sports, freshman sports, and junior varsity sports. It's klunky, but it's there. Cheers! — Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 10:07, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Turns out the page is much easier to navigate in a different browser. I generally use Chrome, which renders the page as locked and only partially visible, but the page looks fine in Firefox. You might try a different browser. Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 10:23, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

And my Chrome showed the list of sports about the middle of the page. It's a scrollable list but not very tall, and it lists every team the sports (varsity, JV, freshman...), but the list is there on the page. —C.Fred (talk) 02:04, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes its there! We have a source- thanks. --ClemRutter (talk) 11:36, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

A further question you use the terms (varsity, JV, freshman...) which are unfamiliar outside the US- freshman (UK year 10) I recognise as refering to a particular high school grade- but not to any inter schools league- what exactly is the structure. What are these leagues? How are they funded? From reading High school (North America)#Physical Education Requirements I see that students are entitled to 225 minutes of PE a week- and then there are extra curricular sports. Either we need a link- or an article- I see we are generating more and more work. Sorry.ClemRutter (talk) 11:36, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

I provides links to varsity and JV articles, but alas, the JV article also has no sources! Freshman teams are explained (sort of) in the JV article. Funding varies by location. It used to be common for varsity and JV teams to be funded out of the athletic budgets of each school, but it's more often the case now that students pay fees to cover uniforms, travel costs, and sometimes even the coach's compensation. Leagues are structured by the schools' size and region, usually designated by "divisions", so the competitions are usually more evenly matched. Cheers! — Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 12:13, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Talking about the contents of the article

I have deleted the overprominent unsourced list- I cannot see it in the reference given. Firstly what is a regional technical vocational school- is it just state wide initiative, or does it occur elsewhere. What does regional mean. If I am offered a job there, what am I expected to teach and to whom. The article suggests that it teaches 21 trades- but to what level? What is the awarding body- and then what is the success rate? At one FE college where I worked,staff teaching basic skills (English and Arithmetic) (sums) to the Beauty therapy students were put on suicide watch! I find the idea of 'teaching a trade' amusing- to learn a trade takes a lifetime- getting yougsters to the point where they don't hurt themselves is do-able.

How do the student access the college- I don't see a railway line. What is the building like, or are there two centres? Who were the architects? ClemRutter (talk) 19:42, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Answered my first question maybe, re have a page Vocational-technical school- that was tagged as unsourced in 2009. Anyone fancy another task? ClemRutter (talk) 19:50, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Good grief, I hate when this happens, like trying to clean out just one closet and discovering other storage spaces in disarray throughout the house. In the US, at least, there are many community colleges with "Career Pathways" agreements with Voc-Tech programs at high schools within their districts. I will take a look at the Voc-Tech article. No promises. Cheers! — Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 20:17, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

I found 3 more articles with no citations: Vocational Certificate of Education, Technical school, Professional technical school. In addition, these articles have been tagged as needing more citations: Vocational education and Dual education system. Last, these articles have been tagged as being written like an essay: TVET (Technical and Vocational Education and Training) and Vocational education in the United States. Does our project maintain a list of all the articles of interest needing attention to these issues? — Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 22:27, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

@Grand'mere Eugene: Thanks for the improvements- a lot of work but worthwhile. Lets see how we can chase up these unsourced important articles. I am a bit busy today (off wiki) trying to rescue democracy and civilisation. ClemRutter (talk) 09:30, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Potential resource for expansion

I cleaned up a bit, and added a few facts. I found one additional article from a reliaable secondary source on the history of the school, here, but have run out of time to work on it. Other interested editors might use it to develop the article appropriately. Cheers! — Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 10:45, 12 January 2019 (UTC)