Talk:Mont Juic (suite)

Removed Infobox

Mont Juic
by Lennox Berkeley Benjamin Britten
Montjuïc, Barcelona (1929), where the composers attended a Festival of Folk Dances on the Exposition Grounds
Catalogue	Op. 9 (Berkeley) Op. 12 (Britten)
Genre	Suite
Based on	Catalan dances
Composed	1937 (1937)
Dedication	"In memory of Peter Burra"
Scoring	orchestra
Premiere
Date	27 June 1938 (1938-06-27): BBC radio broadcast
Conductor	Joseph Lewis
Performers	BBC Symphony Orchestra

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:52, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

I had added the infobox for service: main points, reader courtesy, site consistency, microformats, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:20, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Gerda, what microformats, specifically, are provided by this template? Nikkimaria (talk) 19:03, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

This is described in the documentation of {{Infobox musical composition}} and {{Timeline-event}}. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:07, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

What microformats are provided by this specific use of the template? Nikkimaria (talk) 21:45, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

If you examine the html produced by any template you can quickly see what classes have been added to indicate the microformats. Here's the html for this infobox:

<table class="infobox vevent haudio" style="border-spacing:3px;width:22em;" cellspacing="3">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th colspan="2" class="summary album" style="text-align:center;font-size:125%;font-weight:bold;background-color: #E6E8FA;">
<i>Mont Juic</i>
</th>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="2" style="text-align:center;font-weight:bold; font-size:larger;">
<span class="summary">by</span>
<div class="plainlist" style="margin-left: 0em;">
<ul>
<li><span class="summary"><a href="/wiki/Lennox_Berkeley" title="Lennox Berkeley">Lennox Berkeley</a></span></li>
<li><span class="summary"><a href="/wiki/Benjamin_Britten" title="Benjamin Britten">Benjamin Britten</a></span></li>
</ul>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="2" style="text-align:center;">
<a href="/wiki/File:BarcelonaExpositionPanorama.1929.ws.jpg" class="image">
<img alt="BarcelonaExpositionPanorama.1929.ws.jpg" 
src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/24/BarcelonaExpositionPanorama.1929.ws.jpg/300px-BarcelonaExpositionPanorama.1929.ws.jpg" 
srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/24/BarcelonaExpositionPanorama.1929.ws.jpg/450px-BarcelonaExpositionPanorama.1929.ws.jpg 1.5x,
//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/24/BarcelonaExpositionPanorama.1929.ws.jpg/600px-BarcelonaExpositionPanorama.1929.ws.jpg 2x" height="68" width="300"></a><br>
<div><a href="/wiki/Montju%C3%AFc" title="Montjuïc">Montjuïc</a>, Barcelona (1929), where the composers attended a Festival of Folk Dances on the Exposition Grounds</div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th scope="row" style="text-align:left;">Catalogue</th>
<td>
<div class="plainlist" style="margin-left: 0em;">
<ul>
<li><a href="/wiki/Opus_number" title="Opus number">Op.</a> 9 (Berkeley)</li>
<li>Op. 12 (Britten)</li>
</ul>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th scope="row" style="text-align:left;">Genre</th>
<td><a href="/wiki/Suite_(music)" title="Suite (music)">Suite</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th scope="row" style="text-align:left;">Based on</th>
<td>Catalan dances</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th scope="row" style="text-align:left;">Composed</th>
<td>1937<span style="display:none">&nbsp;(<span class="bday dtstart published updated">1937</span>)</span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th scope="row" style="text-align:left;">Dedication</th>
<td><span class="nowrap">"In memory of Peter Burra"</span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th scope="row" style="text-align:left;">Scoring</th>
<td>orchestra</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th colspan="2" style="text-align:center;background-color: #E6E8FA;">Premiere</th>
</tr>
<tr>
<th scope="row" style="text-align:left;">Date</th>
<td>
<span class="vevent">27&nbsp;June&nbsp;1938<span style="display:none">&nbsp;(<span class="bday dtstart published updated">1938-06-27</span>)</span>&nbsp;–</span>
<a href="/wiki/BBC" title="BBC">BBC</a> radio broadcast
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th scope="row" style="text-align:left;">Conductor</th>
<td><a href="/w/index.php?title=Joseph_Lewis_(conductor)&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="Joseph Lewis (conductor) (page does not exist)">Joseph Lewis</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th scope="row" style="text-align:left;">Performers</th>
<td><a href="/wiki/BBC_Symphony_Orchestra" title="BBC Symphony Orchestra">BBC Symphony Orchestra</a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>

As you can see, the microformats marked up include: infobox vevent haudio summary album bday dtstart published updated

Although infobox is of course specific to Wikipedia, it is recognised by Google (for example) as a container for structured data in the same way as the earlier microformats are. By examining the contents of the containers where the classes are applied you can see the specific examples for this template. For example, "1938-06-27" is within the span marked up as "bday dtstart published updated" which is part of a "vevent" span also containing the text 27 June 1938, itself part of a label-data pair (which is rather unoriginally labelled "Date") within the infobox container, a table. If you need any help in identifying any of the other structures, please ask, but a little bit of practice in reading these formats is a big help in understanding the wide variety of markup that Wikipedia makes use of. Hope that helps, --RexxS (talk) 00:34, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

I hardly understood a word of it, but pay that no mind. Me, I've never seen what the big problem with infoboxes (infoboces?) is on music articles, but I don't make the rules. I quite like the one we have now, but I can also live without it. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 00:40, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

The main problem is that sometimes, on some articles, when particular pieces of information are condensed into the infobox, you may lose nuances; for example we may not know an exact date of birth, but we do know a date of baptism, which is assumed to be very close - so should we supply that for the date of birth? Some may feel that trying to give a list of what compositions a particular composer is best known for is too subjective (or too long) to be a suitable entry in an infobox, and so on. All of these are valid arguments for either not including that parameter or not having an infobox (because the box attracts these sort of over-simplified edits). These are valid arguments and we need to take them seriously when they are made, but unfortunately they only make sense on an article-by-article basis, so need to be discussed individually - and rationally - when an objection is raised. --RexxS (talk) 18:12, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

The HTML class names "summary album bday dtstart published updated" each denote individual properties of microformats, not microformats themselves. ""vevent haudio" are each the root class names of the emitted microformats described in the template documentation. The HTML class "infobox" is nothing to do with microformats, but as you say is useful to data parsers (as intended by the HTML specification) as the label that identifies such a container.. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:05, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

As I said, @Nikkimaria:, this is described in the documentation of {{Infobox musical composition}} and {{Timeline-event}}. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:59, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

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