Talk:Monk seal

Requested move 17 January 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 04:12, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

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Monachus → Monk seal – The current name for this article "Monachus" is the genus for just the Mediterranean monk seal, the other two are in the Neomonachus genus. This article talks about all monk seals, but it can't do that because the genus Monachus does not comprise all three species. Either we change the article's name to "Monk seal" or we split it into "Monachus" and "Neomonachus" Dunkleosteus77 ^{(push to talk)} 00:36, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

• Support. I think it would be best to move the article to the title "monk seal", with both Monachus and Neomonachus as redirects, for now. Splitters may object, insisting that every node on every clade needs a devoted article, but since the genus Neomonachus was erected very recently [1], and given that the article Monachus is well developed already (why chop away?), i think it would be more prudent to discuss each genus within this article. --Animalparty! (talk)

from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mammals 00:22, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

• Support under the assumption that "monk seals" now corresponds to the tribe Monachini. Srnec (talk) 22:26, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Monk seal/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: FunkMonk (talk · contribs) 14:20, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

• Hi, I'll review this. FunkMonk (talk) 14:20, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
• The choice and distribution of images seem a bit odd? For example, the taxobox image is pretty bad compared to the one under description, and though the one under reproduction is historically interesting (I uploaded it, took a while to find it), isn't it possible to find better recent photos of a parent with a juvenile?

I wanted to put the Description image in the taxobox but the red-eye effect is so bad in it. Alternatively, I could use File:Hawaiian monk seal at French Frigate Shoals 07.jpg for the taxobox and replace the current Reproduction image with the current taxobox image.   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:26, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

Sounds good. Also, perhaps show the skeleton? I saw a few such photos on Commons.[2] The photo under description seems so good in composition, that I'm thinking of fixing the red eye effect in Photoshop? FunkMonk (talk) 06:22, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

Added the skeleton image and replaced Taxobox and Reproduction images   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:32, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

• If you want to take this to FAC, the lower range map should state what source it is based on.
• "The two surviving species are now extremely rare and in imminent danger of extinction" Why is this mentioned under taxonomy?

Removed   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:22, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

• "the Mediterranean monk seal, Monachus monachus; the Hawaiian monk seal, Neomonachus schauinslandi; and the Caribbean monk seal, Neomonachus tropicalis" I think this would look better and less convoluted if you put the scientific names in parenthesis.

done   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:22, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

• What are the closest relatives of this group? Cladogram?

Earless seals?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:22, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Whatever it is, such information should be here. FunkMonk (talk) 18:31, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

I don't think there's any one earless seal closer to monk seals than another. I could add the Phocidae part of the cladogram in Pinniped   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  20:32, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

Sounds good. FunkMonk (talk) 13:08, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

added   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  22:59, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

• You need to add date and authority for the tribe in the taxobox, and mention it in the taxonomy section.

added   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  20:32, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

• "Evidence points to monk seals migrating" What evidence?

reworded   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  20:32, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

• "In ancient times" Way too vague. When?

reworded   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  20:32, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

• "changed over the years." Makes it seem as if it is some recent development.

it was (which is later explained)   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  20:32, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

• "In more recent times" Yet again, too vague recentism.

reworded   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  20:32, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

• "Range and distribution" the words are pretty much synonyms here, "habitat" would be better as a replacement for one of the words.

changed   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  20:32, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

• "Monk seals are part of the family Phocidae, the members of which are characterized by their lack of external ears and inability to rotate the hind flippers under the body." Why is this mentioned all the way down in description? Should be in taxonomy, and mention the common name.

It's a description of their locomotive abilities, the Phocidae was just extra   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  00:23, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Still, you don't mention the term Phocidae under taxonomy. FunkMonk (talk) 10:14, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

• "Average lifespan varies between species, with the Hawaiian monk seal living up to 30 years in the wild, whereas the Mediterranean monk seal lives up to 45 years." What does this have to do with description?

where should it go (if at all)?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  00:23, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

The info should of course be included, but as I mentioned below, such functional info would make more sense in a separate behaviour/biology section (with diet and reproduction as subsections), rather than lumped with physical description. FunkMonk (talk) 10:14, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

This seems to be the last issue. FunkMonk (talk) 11:50, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

done   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  22:52, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Alright, I still think the "biology" section should be renamed into "description", but that of course creates a problem with the non-descriptive info there (age, moulting), which I think could be moved to behaviour, though. FunkMonk (talk) 23:00, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Changed name to Description. Age and moulting aren't really 'behaviours' as such; age has nothing to do with behaviour, and an annual molt is just another characteristic of earless seals   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  01:51, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Perhaps make reproduction more inclusive by calling it "reproduction and development", and add the info there? FunkMonk (talk) 16:58, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

done 01:40, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

• ", its cousin" Rather unscientific.

fixed   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  00:23, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

• "The monk seal’s physique is ideally suited for hunting its prey: fish, octopus, lobster, and squid in deep water coral beds.[13] When it is not hunting and eating, it generally basks on the sandy beaches and volcanic rock of the Northwest Hawaiian Islands.[14]" Also doesn't fit under description. Seems you should have a general behaviour/biology section to dump such info in. Perhaps the moulting info as well.

Changed Description to Biology   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  00:23, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

• "Monk seals vary minutely in size" Across species, or do you mean individual variation?

fixed   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  00:23, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

• Could you cite the actual study that finds the extinct species to belong to its own genus?

added   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  00:23, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

• "prey on cephalopods, and crustaceans." Why comma?

removed   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  00:23, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

• "nocturnal octopie species" Doesn't seem to be a proper word.

removed the "e" at the end   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  00:23, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

• "observed by NOAA submersible" Submerged?

no, submersibles   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  00:23, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Ok, the previous version of the sentence did not make it clear that you were referring to vehicles. FunkMonk (talk) 10:14, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

• "Very little is known of the Mediterranean monk seal's reproduction." Doesn't saeem so from the long paragraph devoted to it? Also seems rather wird that you would put sucha disclaimer there, when none comes before the single sentence about the Hawaiian monk seals.

the paragraph is mainly on where pups live   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  00:23, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

• "It is thought that they rarely bore a single pup every two years." What does rarely mean here? That it is rare that they did it every two years?

fixed   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  00:23, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

• Also, it would be nice if you were consistent in the order that the species are discussed in each sentence. But in Reproduction, the Caribbean monk sea should then be discussed last.

done   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  00:23, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

• "Entanglement can result in mortality because the seals get trapped" This is stating the obvious, could be reworded.

fixed   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  00:23, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

• "two-thirds of its seal population were wiped out within two months, extremely compromising the species' viable population. While opinions on the precise causes of this epidemic" You need to mention they were wiped out by an epidemic in the first sentence.

done

• You have no descriptive or behaviour info in the intro. The intro should be a summary of the article, and I think such info should completely replace the second paragraph of the intro, which goes into way too much detail (as much detail as the article body itself even).

I'll get on that

done

• "and the Caribbean monk seal was exploited since the 1500s until the 1850s, when populations were too low to hunt commercially." Only mentioned in intro.

added in Caribbean monk seal section

• You mention how many Mediterranean seals that are left in the world, but I can't seem to find where you mention how many Hawaiian seals that are left. Should be added then.

I remember one of the current sources saying that, I'll look for it   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  21:32, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

added   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  23:03, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

• I'm going to be on vacation this week so I won't be able to edit. Sorry  User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:15, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

No problem! FunkMonk (talk) 18:00, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

• All looks good, the very last thing would be to remove the selflinks in the cladogram and make those names bold instead. FunkMonk (talk) 12:11, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

done   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:36, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

Alright, it's a pass! FunkMonk (talk) 17:44, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

Conservation Status

Should we add an Endangered Conservation Status to this Page? Both of the still alive Monk Seals are endangered. 184.20.56.155 (talk) 12:52, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

The subspecies articles appear to have UICN listings, so I don't believe it is needed. Jim1138 (talk) 04:28, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

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If monk seals don't have ears then how can they hear? WyattFranks (talk) 23:32, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

I think you're confusing ears with pinnae. Seals actually do have ears, but they're like holes in the sides of their head Dunkleosteus77 (talk) 00:36, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

See his earhole behind his eye?