Talk:Mitsuiro Tokuan Shōjō/Archive 1

article creation

yeah i went ahead and create this one since its not dependant on what happens in 104. some of the interwiki links don't work, it just saves me the trouble of having to go back and add them later. i think we can deal with a non-functioning link for about a week lol. her techniques and abilities section was a bitch to work with, hopefully its acceptable to u guys.

also some things mentioned about hirohiko are based on stuff a translator at mangatranslation.com's forum said about 104 (namely that his attack got stronger). i can't cite a forum i imagine lol, but i do still think its correct. --Grimjaw 17:32, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Grimjaw, I made some changes. First all, I took out "She can steal techniques without ever seeing them as Tokuan stole Yoshikatsu Shinjirō Yagyuu’s secret technique despite never seeing it." because Tokuan only was able to do this with the help of Reiki. Secondly I don't believe she can copy dragon gate powers since Tokuan never showed this abilty, plus it more of Nagi's power. Lastly, Hirohiko attack being stronger can not be used because it is original research, but feel be free to tell me why you agree with this opinion. I would also like to bring up if the Shōjō can imprint another's ki on to someone else. Tokuan did change Yoshikatsu's appearance to that of Tadaaki Jiroemon Ono, but I can find any evidence that Tadaaki's skills were also transfers. Yoshikatsu was already a accomplished swordsmen and was more then likely more skilled than Tadaaki since Tokuan had to copy his technique in order to defeat him. (Duane543 03:23, 25 April 2007 (UTC))

i don't think he gave yagyuu any of tadaaki's skills either cuz he doesn't need them. i'm just throwing out the possibility, if he can change the face it stands to reason he can use part of his power on others why not the other part? by the inherant nature of the whole section its assuming things its not to be taken as proven fact. like i said on the hirohiko thing, the guy who does the translating for mangatranslation said that...its not that he's guessing or assuming or coming to his own conclusion, he says Hirohiko apparently told aya not to underestimate him cuz his blades are stronger than what she saw in her flashback at the end of 104. its a forum i know, which is why i didn't cite it...but i still think its reliable considering who said it (he said he'd officially start translating this wkend too btw). reiki makes the use of ones abilities easier, i assumed reiki didn't give him some new power cuz its never done that before but only allowed him to use his better. we could just add something like "but it is difficut to do" or "it assitance from reiki to do so" to fix that. i'm pretty sure she can't copy dragons gates or she'd be ridulously powerful, but i don't know that she can't either since neither of the shojo's mirrored someone with a gate in a fight. like i said that section was a bitch to work with...so i was expecting this kind of thing. --Grimjaw 03:41, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

If she takes Mitsuomi's place in the tournament does that mean he is going to die pretty soon?--Cojin 05:33, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

mana told him he had 2-3 years of life left when he won the tournament as a freshman...regardless i think that man is on his last leg. the shit he and maya said after the fight with tetsuhito kinda made me think both him and maya are gonna die by the end of this series, but thats just my speculation. --Grimjaw 05:36, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Wait if he was in that wheelchair could it mean that he underwent some kind of surgery or somethin?--Cojin 05:38, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh yeah it kinda seems like this chick is based of of Poison from Final Fight.--Cojin 05:39, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

i'm not familiar with final fight to say one way or the other. but as for the wheelchair, i have no idea wtf that was about. like the article says he was fine later, but that could have also been mitsuiro impersonating him again or something. i'd love to tell ya but i honestly have no fucking clue why he was in a wheelchair, and they haven't said anything about it either. --Grimjaw 05:45, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

First, I can't remember when Enmi family's power is called Dragon’s Pupil. What chapter and page? Second, what I was going for on this line: "The weakness of this ability are unclear, but is covered by her partners strength." is to say that her weakness would be covered by Hirohiko's strength. Since the "Takayanagi family pairs up the founding family to compliment the strengths and weakness". Lastly, even if Hirohiko's blades are stronger then what Aya saw, that does not mean that he is stronger then his ancestor. Aya only saw this power once and the was against Tadaaki. Maybe he was only using a fraction of his power against a weaker opponent. (Duane543 16:47, 25 April 2007 (UTC))

ah, i thought u were saying partner as in person she copied...my bad. i dont' have the time to hunt down the dragon's pupil right now but, http://tjtg.mangatranslation.com/characters/tjtg15_characters.html if u look at aya (the feudal japan one) they call it that on mangatranslation too so its in there somewhere. as for hirohiko, myouun was trying to kill hirohiko apparently isn't...so i doubt myouun was the one holding back. i don't know exactly what was said but the guy on mangatranslations said "All Kabane in this chapter says about the swords is that they are a much stronger version of what Aya saw in her flashback, fully able to cut her up if she doesn't withdraw. He does not say anything about their origin, or the full extent of his powers." more powerful "version" says its the power of the ability that went up not the person...but its not like its a big deal to wait for the wkend when he starts translating. --Grimjaw 18:35, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I know Dragon’s Pupil was Feudal era Aya power was named Dragon’s Pupil. The way the article reads now is that Dragon’s Pupil is also the Enmi family's power. I don't recall Enmi family's power being named. Also, when did the time travel happen in the plot so Myouun could kill his decedent? (You used the wrong name). My point is Myouun could have used a weaker form of the technique to kill Tadaaki, so he would not waste ki. This way the technique Hirohiko uses could be stronger without saying that Hirohiko is stronger then Myouun. (Duane543 19:42, 25 April 2007 (UTC))

nah i meant myouun was trying to kill people, Hirohiko (from what i've heard) seemed very hesitant to attack aya (that was poorly articulated before...my bad). so hirohiko would logically be the one holding back since he's not trying to kill. none the less a blade is a blade so it all kills the same too; so myouun could have been holding back. the way the guy worded it made sound like the ability got stronger not the person. i mean why would he say hirohiko's "version" is stronger rather than hirohiko himself is stronger? like i said we can just wait, and its not like its vital to this article anyway. my understanding was that the ability to create illusions was the dragon's pupil and the dragons eye is seperate. even on that thing i linked it says she has BOTH the dragon's eye and dragon's pupil so they are seperate powers. she used the dragon's pupil to create her "bug clone" which is exactly what mouki did to create a bug clone of himself, yorihira, and shinichiro. they may not have directly stated enmi=dragon's pupil (i don't really remember)...but its seems fairly heavily implied. i mean, emni branched from natsume, old school natsume had a power that did the exact same thing as enmi...its not a big stretch to say they're the same thing. --Grimjaw 20:20, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Is it that way or did the Dragon's pupil get divided into the Dragon's eye and the unnamed Enmi power. Just putting it out there. (Duane543 20:49, 25 April 2007 (UTC))

its a possibility i suppose its just a strange way to go, name wise. eye is the whole eye (obviously), but pupil is part of the eye. u would thing the original power would be the eye, then divided into its parts like pupil, iris, retina, cornea and so forth. it seems weird to me to expand the name to encompass more of the eye while the power itself is being broken into smaller pieces. who knows with oh great, he tends to keep ya guessing; to me that would be really wierd tho. again tho this is something thats not even all that important to the article, we could change it to something like "aya's ancestor had access to the powers of the dragon's pupil, powers Aya and Shin did not have" and still get the same point across. --Grimjaw 21:02, 25 April 2007 (UTC)