Talk:Miroslav Blaťák

Article title

The policy as spelled out at Wikipedia:Article titles requires that the article title is to use the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources. This applies to the title of the article – but within the text of the article, pursuant to WP:MOSBIO, the person's legal name should usually appear first in the article. I trust that explains the current Wikipedia policy as it relates to this issue. Dolovis (talk) 13:11, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Jafeluv (talk) 11:22, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

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Miroslav Blaťák → Miroslav Blatak – Contrary to WP:BLP, WP:AT and WP:EN, this article was moved to a non-English title that is not verified by any sources used in the article. Dolovis (talk) 03:41, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose: The current consensus regarding diacritics usage at WP:AT and WP:EN (ie: the interpretation of if the policy supports or opposes them) is no-consensus, so the default would then be to refer to the consensus at WP:HOCKEY, which includes their usage. – Nurmsook! ^talk... 03:48, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

  Rubbish. The discussion you mention was to determine if the policy of WP:AT and WP:EN had been changed. The result is that those policies are valid and remain in full force and effect. Further, this is not a matter of diacritics, this is a matter of non-English letters which, per WP:UE , “must be transliterated.” Dolovis (talk) 04:11, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

  Sure, I guess you could interpret a 50/50 support/oppose ratio at the RfC currently ongoing as proof that policies and guidelines that most people disagree on are in "full force". But I sure don't. I guess that's where our views differ. Thankfully Wikipedia is a democracy where everyone has a voice, not just the 50% that apparently equals the "full force" in your world. The math seems a little off to me, but I guess my math is pretty rubbish... – Nurmsook! ^talk... 04:26, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

  Since there was no consensus to change to policies, they therefore remain in full force and effect. Dolovis (talk) 05:55, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

  That discussion wasn't about changing the policy it was about wording it more clearly. The policies already support the current name. -DJSasso (talk) 12:02, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

  Again, rubbish. Dolovis (talk) 13:46, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

  Running out of arguments? But I've got to hand it to you: you're not one who gives up easy. HandsomeFella (talk) 15:19, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose, the person's surname is Blaťák. Another Quijotean attempt by User:Dolovis to particularize the discussion. - Darwinek (talk) 11:05, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose, the person's surname is Blaťák [1], the version omitting diacritics is a result of imperfect editorial board/tool of major English sports websites. Wikipedia should provide correct information to its readers. --Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 11:38, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:HOCKEY compromise and non-existant guidelines on diacritics in personal names, whether in WP:AT or WP:UE. HandsomeFella (talk) 11:42, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose per all the reason I have given in the last 50 requests by Dolovis. Its really getting tiring having to oppose all these pointy move requests. -DJSasso (talk) 12:02, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
• Comment - a quick Google search confirms that Miroslav Blatak is the commonly used name per WP:COMMONNAME:

  Miroslav Blaťák = about 3,780 hits[2]

  Miroslav Blatak = about 19,700 hits[3] Dolovis (talk) 13:34, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

  WP:COMMONNAME has nothing to do with diacritics. COMMONNAME is there to ensure things like middle names or official titles are removed or kept. COMMONNAME would come in if, say Miroslav Blaťák was currently titled Miroslav MyMiddleNameIsWhatever Blaťák, COMMONNAME would ensure that MyMiddleNameIsWhatever is kept out. – Nurmsook! ^talk... 13:43, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

  WP:COMMONNAME has much to do with the title of the article. Dolovis (talk) 13:45, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

  I know it does. That's exactly what I just said. – Nurmsook! ^talk... 13:49, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

• Support as this is the English Wikipedia. GoodDay (talk) 19:20, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
• Support as these diacriticals are unfamiliar to most English readers. --Bermicourt (talk) 21:04, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Yes, and the best we can do is to prevent English readers to familiarize with the accents in non-English proper names and to access correct and undistorted information :) Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 06:40, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Reply to Vejvančický: Please remember that all we are discussing moving the article's TITLE back to its original English form. This applies to the title of the article only – within the text of the article, pursuant to WP:MOSBIO, the person's legal name should usually appear first in the article. Dolovis (talk) 12:14, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Reply to Vejvančický: We are not trying to teach English speakers foreign alphabets that they are not familiar with. Otherwise we might as well call Tokyo 東京. I'm afraid most people will read Blatak as "blattack" whether you stick the squiggles in or not. And they will likely copy it down as Blatak. --Bermicourt (talk) 18:16, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose for several reasons: Accuracy (as the proposed title is arguably a grammatical error or misspelling), consistency (as per standard practice with personal names in this language), the recommendations of style guides, the practice in other English-language encyclopedias such as Britannica, harmlessness (as the diacriticless spelling is deducible from the proper name, but not vice versa), pronunciation guidance, informativeness (as our primary purpose as an encyclopedia is to educate the readers by providing accurate, complete and trustworthy information) and respect (as people usually want their name spelled right and knowingly misspelling a living person's name is both unencyclopedic and unethical). Prolog (talk) 20:51, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

  Hear, hear! HandsomeFella (talk) 22:19, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose - I don't see any established English usage of any value. Simply a few web sites. Player has not played in English countries. ʘ alaney2k ʘ (talk) 19:20, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose No English language sources to support a move, at present.
  — V = IR (Talk • Contribs) 21:38, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Note: The article was moved to diacritics without an RM, on July 14. The article should've been moved back to 'non-diacritics' & then an RM should've been held. Hopefully, this will occur in the future with other player articles. GoodDay (talk) 18:47, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Actually the article was moved by Dolovis on June 21st stripping off the diacritics. My "move" was not a move it was fixing a copy paste move to correct the article history. And even if it wasn't it would have been BRD of Dolovis's move. The article was created originally with diacritics. -DJSasso (talk) 13:23, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

According to the article's history. Darwinek, moved it to diacritics on May 1st, 2009. GoodDay (talk) 03:15, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Look closer at the history. What he did was correct the diacritic, it already had diacritics. -DJSasso (talk) 03:20, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

My eyes must be failing me. I can usually spot diacritics a mile away. GoodDay (talk) 03:27, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

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