Talk:Middle-earth weapons and armour/Archive 1

Initial discussion

Redirecting all the different articles into one mega-article is kind of a strange thing to do, given that some of the articles are pretty lengthy. It makes sense for the perpetual stubs with few links, not for anything with more than two sentences. The whole purpose of hyperlinking is to have smaller nodes with only relevant material. (The merge also loses the development history of the individual articles.) Stan 11:59, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Most were duplicated: they existed here and with the exact info at the separate article. Anárion 18:03, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Some of these need separate articles.

I propose that we put the following articles back in their separate places:

• Narsil
• Anglachel
• Glamdring

All of them are significant in and of themselves and their treatment is really too lengthy for inclusion here.

I like having Hadhafang in a separate article, too, as this makes it easier to label it as a movie-only invention. (At the very least, it would require a separate section here.) [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 16:42, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Sure. Anárion 18:03, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I did this for Anglachel, and it had already been done for the other two. --Alataristarion 04:12, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Black Arrow

"It is not known if it had any magical properties, but Bard said that he had successfully retrieved it every time he used it (like Beleg's arrow Dailir, see below)."

Wasn't he finally unable to retrieve it after killing Smaug? Correct me if I'm wrong here, I just seem to remember readong something of that nature. --Ifrit 07:59, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

It is not specifically mentioned, but given that it was embedded in Smaug's chest, and the dragon's corpse crashed on Esgaroth and sank in the Long Lake, it is a logical assumption that the Black Arrow was lost. I doubt that the people of Esgaroth and Dale dove down and examined Smaug's bones to retreive it (they might have gone after the jewels and gold though). -- Jordi·✆ 08:22, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Witch-king Weapons

"In The Return of the King, he wields a flaming sword at his confrontation with Gandalf at the Gate of Minas Tirith."

I don't like the fact that this implies the Witch-king had two different weapons: one a normal sword, and the other a "flaming sword". The wording should imply that it was the same sword, and that at the duel with Gandalf, he used his magic to ignite his sword in flames, afterwhich he broke Gandalf's staff. Whether this is an attribute of the sword or of the Witch-king's own power is not directly verified, though probably the latter. Anyway, just don't word it as two different swords. 25 Oct 2006

Sorting

Weapons of Middle-earth may be classified in a variety of ways:

• By Age of Creation or Primary Use: The weapons of Middle-earth were constructed and used at vastly different points throughout the History of Arda. Weapons may therefore be grouped according to the Ages of the Children of Ilúvatar. In general, this implies that weapons primarily discussed in The Silmarillion or the Unfinished Tales will be grouped together, as will weapons found in The Hobbit or The Lord of the Rings.

• By Race of Creator/Primary Wielder: The weapons of Middle-earth are commonly associated with a particular race from Tolkien's legendarium, such as Elves, Men, Dwarves or Orcs. This method of categorization will tend to group similar types of weapons as well as "good" and "evil" weapons.

• By Status: The majority of the weapons found in this list come directly from the writings of J. R. R. Tolkien. However, some are found only in film adaptations of his work, in particular Peter Jackson's live-action film trilogy. The weapons may be classified in this way in order to separate "canonical" from "non-canonical" items.

• By Genericity: Weapons were used by nearly all of the races in the legendarium. However, certain weapons have specific names and, often, an important lineage. Weapons may be organized according to their status in this regard, separating generic weapon types from specific, named weapons.

I think we should stick with as User:Alataristarion put it, status (canonicity?) and genericity.

• Age of Creation or Primary Use: these are two different things; for example Narsil was forged by Dwarves in the First Age, was used in the Second, was broken, and was reforged by Elves as Andúril in the Third. Similarly Glamdring and Sting dated from the First Age but were used in the Third.

• Race of Creator/Primary Wielder: in regards to "primary wielders", everyone used swords, bows and spears, and both Dwarves and the Sindar Elves used axes. Race of Creator may be tricky in some cases, such as Narsil - forged by Dwarves, reforged by Elves.

We could just note these extra details whenever possible, of course. Uthanc 00:45, 20 December 2006 (UTC)