Talk:Michael Schudson

Cutting the biographical infobox

Michael Schudson
Born	(1946-11-03) November 3, 1946
Occupation	Professor of Journalism
Known for	journalism history, media sociology, political communication, and public culture
Awards	MacArthur Fellow in 1990
Academic background
Alma mater	Swarthmore College and Harvard University
Thesis	The emergence of objectivity as a professional norm in U.S. journalism (Discovering the News: A Social History of American Newspapers (1978)

As far as I know, Schudson is neither a painter nor a photographer. (He may be one in his free time, but if so then the article doesn't indicate its significance.) And I've no reason to think that he's an adherent of any "capitalist realism" movement. (Instead, he either coined or made conspicuous the term "capitalist realism", in one of its meanings.)

As creator of this edit, perhaps Geraldshields11 would like to review this recent edit of mine, in which I've removed the biographical infobox as a mixture of (a) apparent fiction, and (b) stuff that can be very easily seen from the main text. Schudson is not a baseball player, "Playmate", Eurovision song contestant, etc, and therefore cannot be usefully reduced to a small number of "key facts". -- Hoary (talk) 04:52, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for your edit. I changed the infobox:artist to a more appropriate infobox:academic. As part of my wikignome work, I add infoboxes. About the capitalist realism text, I do not remember why that is there but it is corrected now.Geraldshields11 (talk) 15:35, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Geraldshields11, I am sure that you mean well, but I urge you to reconsider your "wikignome work". As somebody who has read at least three of Schudson's books from cover to cover and enjoyed and been enlightened by them, I am puzzled by this urge to duplicate on the right things about him that are easily read on the left. And was he born in 1946 (left) or 1964 (right)? (Tip: It wasn't the latter.) Is "a professional norm in U.S. professions" really what's wanted? -- Hoary (talk) 23:20, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

I will work on it. Thanks. Geraldshields11 (talk) 01:01, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

As for the dissertation, that is the subject matter per the cite. Please feel free to edit. About your earlier comment about Playmate or Eurovision, I interpreted that as using an artist instead of a academic infobox. Geraldshields11 (talk) 01:12, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

You're right: the source does indeed say "His dissertation on the emergence of objectivity as a professional norm in U.S. professions became his first book". But (1) this would need quotation marks, (2) it's horrible, and (3) I suspect a typo. (I have a copy of the book in question; but it's halfway across Tokyo from where I now sit, and I lack the time to reread it any time very soon.) ¶ The notability of most (not all) baseball players, "Playmates" and Eurovision contestants is minor and can easily be described via a very limited number of variables. A small number of variables is a lot less suitable for even minor sculptors, opera singers, photographers and others. As for those outside the arts, the first of the "notable ideas" listed in the infobox on Noam Chomsky is, incredibly, "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously": this wasn't and isn't a notable idea, it was an example of a pragmatically impossible yet grammatical sentence (an example that, surprisingly, has had a rich afterlife). Et cetera. While convinced of your good intentions and fully aware of WP:OWN, I hope that biographical infoboxes do not spring up on the articles that I have created. -- Hoary (talk) 01:34, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

After further review of the link wikignome work, I noticed I had filled out the one bare url cite and added several RS cites to support the text. Please would you add more cites to support the text? Geraldshields11 (talk) 01:17, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

I removed the infobox (and nothing else). You subsequently reintroduced it. It had two links. After you reintroduced the infobox, I left one of the links as it was, and commented out the other (because it didn't support the claim that its provision seemed to support). I'm going to be busy in the next few days, but time willing I'll do some work on the article, of course providing sources for material that I add. -- Hoary (talk) 01:34, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

@Hoary: While I was typing an explanation of why the infobox was put back, I had an edit conflict on the talk page while you were typing from Toyko. All my text was lost at the time. I was going to say we can work together. Geraldshields11 (talk) 01:43, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

The reason for infoboxes is two fold. 1) Mobile users can view infoboxes better on their cell phones and that is were most of our Wiki users are coming from these days. 2) The Life of an Article uses the atom as an example of the steps of a GA and an infobox seems to add a weighty tome of paper to the scale in tipping the balance.

Thank you for the proofreading the article earlier. I appreciate it. Geraldshields11 (talk) 01:48, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

The Noam C's notable idea is an article by itself at Colorless green ideas sleep furiously. By the way, even Newton has an info-box and he is very complex. Geraldshields11 (talk) 01:59, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

I don't mind that Colorless green ideas sleep furiously is an article. (The article rambles on a bit, but it's basically sound.) The fact that it's an article doesn't mean that the article is about an idea. It's not about an idea. It's about an unlikely but grammatical sentence, as a stepping stone in Chomsky's argument that unlikeliness and ungrammaticality are different. ¶ I've just looked quickly at the article on Chomsky himself via my phone, in "mobile" view. Terrible! I see the infobox with his wives and other long lists (much of which would be mysterious to anyone not already familiar with his work) before I get to read anything about him. Yes, people increasingly use their phones to access WP (and I do so myself); but this strikes me as an additional and strong reason not to use biographical infoboxes (other perhaps than for baseballers, etc). -- Hoary (talk) 02:42, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

References

External links modified

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I have just modified 4 external links on Michael Schudson. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160405061527/http://www.journalism.columbia.edu/profile/62-michael-schudson/10 to http://www.journalism.columbia.edu/profile/62-michael-schudson/10
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160405061527/http://www.journalism.columbia.edu/profile/62-michael-schudson/10 to http://www.journalism.columbia.edu/profile/62-michael-schudson/10
• Added archive http://arquivo.pt/wayback/20090715051205/http://communication.ucsd.edu/PeoplePages/MichaelSchudson.html to http://communication.ucsd.edu/PeoplePages/MichaelSchudson.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070928092801/http://www.pewcenter.org/batten/schudson.html to http://www.pewcenter.org/batten/schudson.html

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