Talk:Michael Hayden (general)/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Narus ST-6400 and NarusInsight by Narus Ltd.

Under Gen. Michael V. Hayden the NSA has forced telecom companies to implement massive domestic spying hardware. Even though Gen. Hayden has said at the National Press Club that "As the director, I was the one responsible to ensure that this program was limited in its scope and disciplined in its application." The NarusInsight is one type of domestic spying hardware. Capable of monitoring of an OC-192 network line in realtime. For reference thats monitoring 39000 DSL lines in realtime for every piece of hardware. After data capture Narus softeware can replay data. What does this mean well according to Narus website "Capabilities include playback of streaming media (for example, VoIP), rendering of Web pages, examination of e-mails and the ability to analyze the payload/attachments of e-mail or file transfer protocols." References: Narus Ltd http://narus.com, NATIONAL PRESS CLUB Transcript: http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/library/news/2006/intell-060123-dni01.htm www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1564046/posts Hoover's company factsheet: http://www.hoovers.com/narus/--ID__60701--/free-co-factsheet.xhtml Report by bewert: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/4/8/14724/28476 EFF case against AT&T http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/att/ AbrahamLincoln24 23:18, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

All contributions must comply with:

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3. Information on Wikipedia must be reliable. Facts, viewpoints, theories, and arguments may only be included in articles if they have already been published by reliable and reputable sources. Articles should cite these sources whenever possible. Any unsourced material may be challenged and removed. This leads to => How to figure out what is a reliable published source.

Is your contribution in compliance with the rules? Metarhyme 01:21, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

yes it meets all these rules. it has no unpublished data. It is very neutral. All fatcs in the post come from reliable references that I site. 69.107.100.9 01:42, 11 May 2006 (UTC) AbrahamLincoln24 01:45, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps you should think more about the neutral point of view article: language like "forced" and "massive" is very weighted - I'd consider this POV.

In addition there's some material of questionable relevancy (this is not the right page for background material on surveillance hardware), and the text still has some has some very poor grammar & a non-encyclopedic language ("What does this mean well according to"), and the references are not correctly specified. Finally, some one these references may not be considered reliable enough to be considered references (eg a personal blog). That doesn't necessarily the material cannot be used, but if it is it must be qualified as such.

In general AbrahamLincoln24, if your edit gets reverted you should not simply try and re-add the material, instead raise it here on the discussion page. You've tried to add this material at least seven times to the article in the last two days: every time it has been reverted by various editors. Continually attemptting to add it back in is counter-productive - you'll get much further if you try and reach a consensus with other editors here on the discussion page first. I think there's some useful information here to contribute to the article, so lets try and tidy it up first and avoid revert wars in the meantime, ok? WhiteCat 06:56, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

What is your source for this statement: "Under Gen. Michael V. Hayden the NSA has forced telecom companies to implement massive domestic spying hardware." Who says that? Metarhyme 02:10, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Metarhyme On 17 OCT 2002 Gen. Hayden goes before the Joint Inquiry of the Senate Select Committee On Intelligence and the House Permanent Select Committee On Intelligence basicly to explain were was the NSA durring the Sept 11 acttacts. Durring his testomony he explains his stradegy "Another part of our strategy for nearly three years has been a shift to a greater reliance on American industry (telecom). We have been moving along this path steadily and we have the metrics to show it. As you know, in project GROUNDBREAKER we have already outsourced a significant portion of our information technology so that we can concentrate on mission. We have partnered with academia for our systems engineering. I have met personally with prominent corporate executive officers(AT&T Verizon etc)." Under the CALEA law telecom companies are force to help the NSA. Reference http://intelligence.senate.gov/0210hrg/021017/hayden.pdf AbrahamLincoln24 03:57, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone have any problems for the post of narus relatting to Gen. Hayden. AbrahamLincoln24 05:36, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

You do not provide a reference for your statement about CALEA, which involves G-men (FBI, DEA) rather than NSA. The EFF suit claims that NSA used no law when it asked the telcos for access and that the telcos unlawfully aided NSA when they granted access. If EFF is correct, your statement about CALEA is wrong - telcos and NSA were secretly breaking laws, not obeying the CALEA law which applies to domestic law enforcement.

Here's a full quote of section 27:

"27.Another part of our strategy for nearly three years has been a shift to a greater reliance on American industry. We have been moving along this path steadily and we have the metrics to show it. As you know, in project GROUNDBREAKER we have already outsourced a significant portion of our information technology so that we can concentrate on mission. We have partnered with academia for our systems engineering. I have met personally with prominent corporate executive officers. (One senior executive confided that the data management needs we outlined to him were larger than any he had previously seen). Three weeks ago we awarded a contract for nearly $300 million to a private firm to develop TRAILBLAZER, our effort to revolutionize how we produce SIGINT in a digital age. And last week we cemented a deal with another corporate giant to jointly develop a system to mine data that helps us learn about our targets. In terms of "buy vs. make" (the term Congress has used), we spent about a third of our SIGINT development money this year making things ourselves. Next year the number will be 17%."

Here's Hayden's reasoning in section 40:

"40.In the context of NSA's mission, where do we draw the line between the government's need for CT information about people in the United States and the privacy interests of people located in the United States? Practically speaking, this line-drawing affects the focus of NSA's activities (foreign versus domestic), the standard under which surveillances are conducted (probable cause versus reasonable suspicion, for example), the type of data NSA is permitted to collect and how, and the rules under which NSA retains and disseminates information about U.S. persons."

CT stands for Counter Terrorism. A couple of problems with your wanting to put operational details of this highly classified program into the article are: 1. it's Original Research and 2. it breaks laws about not blabbing secrets. Metarhyme 14:10, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Matarhyme lets try to keep this Civil. Please don't show bias by accussing me of breaking laws and blabbing secrets. As a 29yrd US vetern who had some type of secret cleance know better than most what is secret and what is not. 1.Anything you can find in public record or on a corparate website is not clisified. 2. Maby the word "forced" is to strong of a word I will bend and put "worked with" in my post. 3. This post is totaly relevent because Gen. Hayden has said this program is one of his greatest acomplishments. He has also said "I have met personally with prominent corporate executive officers(AT&T Verizon etc)." 4. My statement CALEA is not wrong. I think tou should read the CALEA law. CALEA law SEC. 102 part (5) "The term `government' means the government of the United States and any agency or instrumentality thereof, the District of Columbia, any commonwealth, territory, or possession of the United States, and any State or political subdivision thereof authorized by law to conduct electronic surveillance." Please lets keep this CIVIL. http://www.askcalea.net/calea.html 69.107.100.9 15:45, 11 May 2006 (UTC)AbrahamLincoln24 15:47, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

The objective is to get your contribution into the article. Agreed? If people don't see problems it won't be reverted. You dislike my proposal. How about putting your counterproposal below it? Metarhyme 16:23, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

How about this?

Under Gen. Michael V. Hayden the NSA started instituting a database of unprecedented size, according to his testimony on October 17, 2002 before the Joint Inquiry of the Senate Select Committee On Intelligence and the House Permanent Select Committee On Intelligence: "One senior executive confided that the data management needs we outlined to him were larger than any he had previously seen." Hayden Statement to Congress - see section 27 Civil Rights groups have challenged the legality of the information collection (for example see EFF class action suit) and questioned Hayden's honesty in stating that the Program "is not a driftnet" and "is targeted and focused." General Hayden's address to the National Press Club on January 23, 2006

(I found that the Director of National Intelligence website has removed its link to the press release)

Metarhyme 15:41, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Hayden's remark indicates that NSA's database was projected to be considerably larger than AT&T's 300 terabyte "Daytona" database of caller information -- one of the largest databases in the world. Rather than focusing on hardware, it might be better to look at the size of the repository. It could be used to spy on a handful of terrorists or it could be used to spy on anybody. Metarhyme 17:01, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Metarhyme thank you for working with me. I want to stick with my post. This is what Im trying to convey in my post. I want to give scope and size to Gen. Hayden biggest acomplishment. Using the example of the NarusInsight is one way to do this. I dont want to use any phrase like "questioned his honesty" beacuse he ether miss statted somthing or he did not. AbrahamLincoln24 16:27, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

On 17 OCT 2002 Gen. Hayden went before the Joint Inquiry of the Senate Select Committee On Intelligence and the House Permanent Select Committee On Intelligence to explain where the NSA was during the Sept 11 attacks. He testified, "Another part of our strategy for nearly three years has been a shift to a greater reliance on American industry. We have been moving along this path steadily and we have the metrics to show it. As you know, in project GROUNDBREAKER we have already outsourced a significant portion of our information technology so that we can concentrate on mission. We have partnered with academia for our systems engineering. I have met personally with prominent corporate executive officers." Hayden Statement to Congress - see section 27 Under the CALEA law telecom companies are forced to help the NSA. askCALEA

I cleaned it up - does that suit you? Metarhyme 16:43, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Metarhyme please help me combine these 2 post and I think we have a winner. Also correction to grammer would help. AbrahamLincoln24 17:15, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

OK - give me a few minutes. Metarhyme 17:28, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Narus ST-6400 and NarusInsight by Narus Ltd. Under Gen. Michael V. Hayden the NSA has worked with telecom companies to implement massive domestic spying hardware. Even though Gen. Hayden has said at the National Press Club that "As the director, I was the one responsible to ensure that this program was limited in its scope and disciplined in its application." The NarusInsight is one type of domestic spying hardware. Capable of monitoring of an OC-192 network line in realtime. For reference thats monitoring 39,000 DSL lines in realtime for every piece of hardware. After data capture Narus softeware can replay data. According to Narus website replay data definition is "Capabilities include playback of streaming media (for example, VoIP), rendering of Web pages, examination of e-mails and the ability to analyze the payload/attachments of e-mail or file transfer protocols." References: Narus Ltd http://narus.com, NATIONAL PRESS CLUB Transcript: http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/library/news/2006/intell-060123-dni01.htm www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1564046/posts Hoover's company factsheet: http://www.hoovers.com/narus/--ID__60701--/free-co-factsheet.xhtml EFF case against AT&T http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/att/ http://www.askcalea.net/calea.html

Here's my try at NPOV combo:

The Electronic Frontier Foundation alleges that under Gen. Michael V. Hayden the NSA has worked with telecom companies to implement massive domestic spying hardware. EFF class action suit Although Gen. Hayden said at the National Press Club that "As the director, I was the one responsible to ensure that this program was limited in its scope and disciplined in its application," [1] his testimony that, "One senior executive confided that the data management needs we outlined to him were larger than any he had previously seen," (Hayden Statement to Congress - see section 27 before the Joint Inquiry of the Senate Select Committee On Intelligence and the House Permanent Select Committee On Intelligence) indicates that NSA's database was projected to be considerably larger than AT&T's 300 terabyte "Daytona" database of caller information. The NarusInsight is one type of spying hardware, capable of monitoring of an OC-192 network line in realtime. After data capture, according to Narus, its software can replay, "streaming media (for example, VoIP), rendering of Web pages, examination of e-mails and the ability to analyze the payload/attachments of e-mail or file transfer protocols." Narus Ltd Narus NSA would need to use these or more powerful switches for data collection.

Metarhyme 18:29, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Almost there heres mine... AbrahamLincoln24 21:13, 11 May 2006 (UTC) Perposed titled Gen. Michael V. Hayden strategy for the NSA

Gen. Michael V. Hayden and the NSA have a strategy to shift greater reliance on American industry for the perposes of domestic spying. [Gen. Hayden Statement to Congress - see section 27, EFF class action suit Although Gen. Hayden said at the National Press Club that "As the director, I was the one responsible to ensure that this program was limited in its scope and disciplined in its application," [2] his testimony that, "One senior executive confided that the data management needs we outlined to him were larger than any he had previously seen" Gen. Hayden Statement to Congress - see section 27 before the Joint Inquiry of the Senate Select Committee On Intelligence and the House Permanent Select Committee On Intelligence) indicates that NSA's database was projected to be considerably larger than AT&T's 300 terabyte "Daytona" database of caller information. The NarusInsight is one type of spying hardware, capable of monitoring of an OC-192 network line in realtime (39,000 DSL lines). After data capture, according to Narus, its software can replay, "streaming media (for example, VoIP), rendering of Web pages, examination of e-mails and the ability to analyze the payload/attachments of e-mail or file transfer protocols." Narus Ltd Narus AbrahamLincoln24 21:13, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

General Hayden hasn't stated that he's implemented massive domestic spying. EFF has accused AT&T of working with the NSA to do that. The, "Gen. Michael V. Hayden and the NSA have worked with telecom companies to implement massive domestic spying hardware," statement has to be made accurate. It's not good enough that you say that, nor can Wikipedia be made to say that. It needs a mouth - whose mouth? Since EFF said that, I proposed them. Try to correct that first sentence below your section title: Metarhyme 20:03, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Metarhyme I will delete the sentence and replace it with "Gen. Michael V. Hayden and the NSA have a stradegy to shift greater reliance on American industry for the purpose of domestic spying." AbrahamLincoln24 21:13, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

It is true that Hayden shifted NSA from making stuff to buying stuff. He said that. He never said "for the purpose of domestic spying" however. That's you again. Let me start you out: Metarhyme 21:31, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Gen. Michael V. Hayden strategy for the NSA

Metarhyme I think I been a sport and bent over backwards. I've taken out the word "massive", even though installing hardware like NarusInsight at evry telecom company is by definition massive. I've taken out the word "forced", even though CALEA law proves it. I've taken out miss statements that Gen. Hayden has said about the domestic spy program and he has made alot. I have also proved alot of your statements wrong (the NSA cant use CALEA etc). Your last statement is worng to. The NSA is not buying anything unless your implying that American telecoms are makeing monney off the NSA. By definition using the NarusInsight on American soil is domestic spying. Lets call domestic spying, domestic spying. Dont get me wrong I think your imput has made this post better. AbrahamLincoln24 22:43, 11 May 2006 (UTC) Do you agaree if not explain. AbrahamLincoln24 22:43, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Since I'm also disinterested in continuing, you might as well see what happens. Metarhyme 23:08, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

==Purposed additioin too Gen. Michael V. Hayden strategy for the NSA== AbrahamLincoln24 06:59, 13 May 2006 (UTC) I want to add this to the last line "This same technology is used by the chinnies government to spy and censor on its people." http://narus.com/press/news/index.html AbrahamLincoln24 15:09, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Shanghai telecom is thinking about buying it. That's a little bit different than having it and using it, and not exactly the same as the Chinese government. You are fibbing to push your point of view. Both things are against the rules. Metarhyme 18:12, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Metarhyme AbrahamLincoln24 01:24, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I was not speaking about the narus in that sentence. I just trying to make the point that the chinies buy simmiller technology to spy and censor its people. Mainly refering to cisco routers. The only difference is that the narus is 3 generations more advanced mainly because it inspects internet trafic at a deep level. My company does some buisness in China and let me tell you that Shanghai telecom is a subsidiary of China Telecom witch is owned by the Chinese government. http://www.businessweek.com/it100/2005/company/CHA.htm

OK, China Telecom is government owned. How about saying that the Chinese government uses more primitive technology for surveillance, and is planning to get the three generations more advanced Narus equipment? Use the Narus reference. Metarhyme 03:09, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Im I wrong if so please explain. AbrahamLincoln24 01:24, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

How about this - " The China Telecom uses this same type of technology to spy and censor its people in a more primitive way. China telecom has started the process to acquire this technology logistically and financially. Shanghai Telecom seeks system " AbrahamLincoln24 03:52, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Super. Stick it in, if you approve of the reference I found for it. Metarhyme 04:19, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

AbrahamLincoln24 05:52, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Looks good to me, I will add it. Also I have found more information on Gen. Haydens intel stradagy. It has to do with some dod and military doctrines. Those doctrines outline bringing war to the net. The doctrines are called "Fight the net" and "Information Operations Roadmap". Scary stuff. Some examples are using PSYOP in the US and international media to desive and miss direct our enemys, even though US public may be desived too. AbrahamLincoln24 05:52, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Say it exactly. Provide a reference for exactly what you say. Then put it in that way. Metarhyme 01:32, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Gen. Michael V. Hayden and the NSA have a strategy to shift greater reliance on American industry for the purposes of domestic spying (see Gen. Hayden Statement to Congress - see section 27), EFF class action suit Although Gen. Hayden said at the National Press Club that "As the director, I was the one responsible to ensure that this program was limited in its scope and disciplined in its application" [3], his testimony that, "One senior executive confided that the data management needs we outlined to him were larger than any he had previously seen" Gen. Hayden Statement to Congress - see section 27 before the Joint Inquiry of the Senate Select Committee On Intelligence and the House Permanent Select Committee On Intelligence) indicates that NSA's database was projected to be considerably larger than AT&T's 300 terabyte "Daytona" database of caller information. The NarusInsight is one type of spying hardware, capable of monitoring of an OC-192 network line in realtime (39,000 DSL lines). After data capture, according to Narus, its software can replay, "streaming media (for example, VoIP), rendering of Web pages, examination of e-mails and the ability to analyze the payload/attachments of e-mail or file transfer protocols" This same technology is used by the chinese government to spy on its people. (see [[4]]). AbrahamLincoln24 06:59, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

AbrahamLincoln24 22:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC) I want to add this line to above text. "The NarusInsight is one type of spying hardware, capable of monitoring of an OC-192 network line in realtime (39,000 DSL lines)or give AT&T the power to monitor all 7,432,000 DSL lines it owns.

4th Amendment

It's true that this article is not the place for an extended discussion of the warrantless wiretapping controversy. But the controversy at the Press Club--which, again, was what first brought Hayden to public prominence--was not about the administration's policy, but about whether or not Hayden knew what was in the 4th Amendment.

I have rethought my position that the Kerr quote doesn't belong in the article--I now think it does. The response from Hayden's supporters is that he was talking about what was relevant in the 4th Amendment, not what was actually in the 4th Amendment. I don't personally buy that, but I don't have to buy it--that is the response and it therefore deserves to be in the article. The article should not take sides on which side is right, but present the opposing views.

What should not be in this article is a debate over whether the administration's position on warrantless wiretapping is valid or not--there's a very lengthy article rehearsing the views pro and con on that. Nareek 00:39, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

If you want to discuss this topic, then in order to consolidate discussion on particular topics, please refer to the Controversial news conference/video; 4th Amendment; warrantless wiretapping disambiguation section to decide whether to continue discussion under the topic 2006 news conference/video: Did MH say that "probable cause" is not in the 4th Amendment or under the topic Warrantless wiretapping DavidForthoffer (talk) 17:58, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Vietnam Service?

Hello. This page reads pretty good. I'm just interested in this man's military career. The article simply says "Hayden entered active military service in 1969." Being the period of high US involvement in Vietnam, I wonder if anyone here can add something about how/why he received his Bronze Star. Thank you. 210.20.86.85 05:11, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Seems to be impossible to find how a rear area desk jockey won the Bronze Star. You would think his legendary combat heroics would be front and center in his biographies if they existed. 170.69.3.14 (talk) 18:38, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

May I say...

May I just say that you have done a great job of keeping this article fair.

I am someone who defends "warrantless surveillance" and I see no way else to spell it out. It is what it is. "domestic spying" on the other hand seems to imply that Americans were being targeted. While this could be debated, its not a fact.

Good job. I only home my contributions are as diligent as yours.

--Oxcart12 02:13, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

If you want to discuss this topic, then in order to consolidate discussion on particular topics, please refer to the Controversial news conference/video; 4th Amendment; warrantless wiretapping disambiguation section to decide whether to continue discussion under the topic 2006 news conference/video: Did MH say that "probable cause" is not in the 4th Amendment or under the topic Warrantless wiretapping DavidForthoffer (talk) 17:59, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

nervous tick on charlie rose.....

(Removed comment not related to editing the main article. This is not a blog. Edison (talk) 04:20, 16 December 2007 (UTC))

Irish-American

Well, but Hayden is a German surname. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.94.186.41 (talk) 13:47, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008

Article reassessed and graded as start class. --dashiellx (talk) 19:18, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Michael loves his uniform

Is there any place in this article for mention of the fact that when he was working at NSA and CIA, his attire (ie, that 4-star general's uniform) was strictly voluntary? That is, he wasn't required by the Air Force to wear his uniform while working for a civilian agency. He couldve worn a suit ( just like everyone else at NSA and CIA), but for some reason, almost Michael Jackson-like, he chose to keep his particular authoritarian look. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Petzl (talk • contribs) 00:51, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Like many of us who served, he wore his uniform because he was proud of it and proud of the people he served with.

76.189.7.215 (talk) 23:36, 30 November 2009 (UTC) by 27 yr af vet

The Director of NSA (DIRNSA) is always headed by an active duty military officer at least of the pay-grade of O-9. NSA is a Deparment of Defense (DoD) agency and career NSA civilians are DoD employees in addition to the military personnel that serve there. Thus is entirely appropriate and expected that the DIRNSA would wear his uniform, just as the current DIRNSA does and past ones always have.

The CIA is an executive deparment agency outside of the DoD and thus CIA officers are not DoD employees. There are many pictures available with Gen Hayden as Director of the CIA in a civilian suit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.5.18.32 (talk) 21:42, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Military assignees at NSA are expected to wear their uniforms. I suppose, though, as head of the Agency, he could have changed the policy, but that would have broken many years of tradition. ArthurAdams (talk) 17:53, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

POV, Weasel tags

User 74.107.120.210 (talk · contribs) added {{POV}} and {{Weasel}} tags to the article in August 2009 without any discussion. In fact, no-one has ever discussed them. I couldn't see any weasel-wording or obvious POV problems, so I've removed the tags. Any comments? Cheers, CWC 11:18, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Nothing on torture?

I'm amazed there's nothing in this article on torture. Hayden was a very vocal -- and explicit -- proponent of maintaining the CIA's policies and practices on torture after Obama was elected. I refer anyone working on this page to the descriptions of meetings and quotations from Hayden included in a new book, Kill or Capture, by Daniel Klaidman (Houghton Mifflin Harcourt), which comes out in a couple of months. --184.46.29.102 (talk) 19:05, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Build out his NSA data collections

His activity within PRISM and KeyStore etc as a whole need additions as this seems to be his pivotal historical value — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blahblahbuenas (talk • contribs) 07:47, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

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Political Party Affiliation

Someone keeps changing General Hayden's political party affiliation to Republican. I have known him for many years and he tells me that he has never registered as a Republican. During the course of his military career he lived in a number of different locations and registered to vote in several different states. He tells me that if he was asked for party affiliation on his registrations he would always choose Independent. He also tells me that during the course of his voting life he has voted for both Democrat and Republican candidates.

Some in the media have labeled him as a Republican but they are mistaken. Yes, he served most of his most senior positions in a Republican administration but he was appointed DIRNSA by a Democratic president. Furthermore, he served the entirety of his time as DIRNSA and PDDNI and the majority of his time as DCIA as an active duty uniformed military officer. As such, he was totally non-partisan and non-political as is appropriate and required for military members. Since leaving government he has not been particularly active in the political arena. Yes, he has criticized the current administration from time to time but that does not make him a Republican. He has been asked by some Republican candidates to provide them with national security advice and he has agreed to do that. That also does not make him a Republican. He has said that he would no doubt be willing to also do that for Democratic candidates should they ask.

The open letter that he signed on August 9, 2016 along with 49 others opposing Donald Trump was portrayed in the press using the shorthand "50 GOP National Security Experts..." Or "50 Top Republican ..." but a careful reading of the letter makes clear that they do not refer to themselves as Republicans but only say that they have served in Republican administrations. The letter can be found here: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/08/08/us/politics/national-security-letter-trump.html or here: http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2016/images/08/08/trumpletter.pdf

Citing a variety of media where a journalist refers to General Hayden as a Republican is insufficient. That is the journalist's opinion or hearsay, not proof.

Ldcrank (talk) 06:37, 11 August 2016 (UTC)ldcrankLdcrank (talk) 06:37, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Head of CIA: NPV violations

While the couple of bullet points are at least sourced, the section doesn't present any overall context, it reads like a set of bulletpoints from Mother Jones magazine. Like other DCI profiles of Bush-era apointees the article is decidedly not neutral. So, one Democratic senator said something bad about the nominee. This is one of five or six of the main things we (as encyclopedia readers) want to know about his tenure. This is more important that the dozen nice things the GOP senators said about him BECAUSE??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.22.76.12 (talk) 01:07, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

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Bibliography

I have commenced a tidy-up of the Bibliography section using cite templates. Capitalization and punctuation follow standard cataloguing rules in AACR2 and RDA, as much as Wikipedia templates allow it. ISBNs and other persistent identifiers, where available, are commented out, but still available for reference. This is a work in progress; feel free to continue. Sunwin1960 (talk) 01:12, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

Related to Newsweek Journo Michael Edison Hayden?

"He is married to Jeanine Carrier, and they have a daughter and two sons, Margaret, Michael and Liam."

This passage is unsourced in the article. Michael Edison Hayden writes about the Alt-Right, White Nationalists, etc... for Newsweek. 2605:6000:6947:AB00:3466:94E8:8A8C:A1D2 (talk) 11:24, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Hilarious moment

During an interview on The Late Show:

Stephen Colbert: DO YOU KNOW-- DO YOU KNOW THINGS THAT YOU CAN'T TELL ME THAT I'D BE FASCINATED TO HEAR?

Michael Hayden: YES.

( LAUGHTER ) ( APPLAUSE )

Stephen: DUMB QUESTION. YOU CAN GIVE US EVEN A HINT?

Michael: YOU CAN KEEP A SECRET?

( LAUGHTER ).

Stephen: TURN OFF THE CAMERAS. {mouthed: no don’t}} I CAN KEEP A SECRET.

Michael:  ME, TOO.

( LAUGHTER ) ( APPLAUSE )

Stephen: I STEPPED INTO THAT. Samatva (talk) 22:11, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

References