Talk:Metrication in Ireland

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Metrication in Ireland

Hi, I'm unsure why you've [DeFacto] reverted my edit wholesale as controversial and requiring citation. The original content was not sourced and made some extraordinary claims about the daily use of non-metric units here in Ireland outside my lived experience of 34 years. It's difficult to source relevant citations without resorting to fairly irrelevant links to journalism featuring people using metric units for height and weight, property sites which all exclusively use metric units, government grant forms list area in hectares. There have been no academic studies I can find into common use of metric units which examines generational difference. Yet the article as it currently reads is at odds with my own and my peers use of metric units for all of the mentioned uses. Can you make any suggestions? Cros13 (talk) 00:51, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
(moved here from my talkpage. -- DeFacto (talk). 06:03, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

I thought my edit summary was clear enough, but I can expand a little. Wiki policy requires content to be verifiable, reliably sourced and balanced, and not based solely on an editor's personal experience or opinion. See Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:Reliable sources, Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. Sure there is currently unsourced content in the article, but the addition of further unsourced content does not improve matters. -- DeFacto (talk). 06:13, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Per your comments above, I have undone the insertion of the edit of 5 February 2019. which though described as "better layout" actually introduced material which was not verifiable, reliably sourced and balanced and gave every appearance of being based solely on an editors personal experience or opinion. 92.19.29.209 (talk) 16:33, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

That's fine with me, I wonder what Cros13 thinks. -- DeFacto (talk). 20:52, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

It's certainly more accurate without the assertions of imperial units being preferred units of the majority. Not Wikipedia:Reliable sources or questionable Wikipedia:Relevance as a citation but: https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/48cfj9/do_you_use_metric_or_imperial/ and the style guides for most of the major newspapers put metric units first for body measurements as in this article: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/ana-kri%C3%A9gel-murder-trial-the-complete-story-1.3929570 Cros13 (talk) 01:36, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

Plumbing and building

Recent edit: "However, by 2020, the Irish plumbing industry has almost completely migrated to the same Metric pipework standards (EN 1057) as used in the UK and across the European Union."

I've a major problem in believing this. There is not a shadow of a doubt in my mind that 99% of plumbing in Ireland is imperial and I see no evidence at all of this changing. The UK went metric in 1972 and made it law. The Irish government went for protectionism/not-doing-anything-as-usual and we all pay 20% more for materials as a result. This why I said in my first edit that the only metric plumbing you'll find in Ireland is that put in when buying in bulk from the UK was far cheaper (ie: in the boom years, when we were told to "shop around" but "not in the North").

The closest builders providers to me is Grange in Baldoyle. If I ask for 22mm pipe I'll get 3/4", in copper or plastic. In metre lengths of course because the EU mandates that quantities be metric. More to the point, I can't actually buy 22mm pipe from them. I can from Screwfix (online shopping/broadband is another Irish government failure).

Carpet is priced in square yards supplied in metre widths. Underlay in mm x square feet. etc etc. Plywood is 8 x 4 foot so 1220mm x 2440mm. Plasterslabs are 8' (2440)x 1200, and concrete boards are 1200x2400mm. And so it goes on.

After doing some research, it turns out your statement about pipe diameter still being in inches is correct, so the section you were referring to should be edited.

Unofficialwikicorrector (talk) 03:13, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Distance signs had displayed kilometres since the 1970s but road speed limits were in miles per hour until January 2005

There are no citations or any evidence to prove this claim: "Distance signs had displayed kilometres since the 1970s but road speed limits were in miles per hour until January 2005, when they were finally changed to kilometres per hour." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Unofficialwikicorrector (talk • contribs) 03:11, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Deletion of my additions to the article "Metrication in Ireland"

(Moved here from my talkpage. -- DeFacto (talk). 17:55, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello mate [DeFacto], I am not sure why you deleted everything I added to the "Metrication in Ireland" article. I can tell you definitively, the inner diameter of Irish plumbing pipes are still measured in inches, unlike in the UK where the pipes are measured by the outer diameter, in millimetres. The information on the section that was about plumbing was totally inaccurate, before I edited it. I don't know if you want me to call in group of researchers to create a formal report on Irish plumbing pipes, but the information I added to the section was entirely accurate. If you don't believe me, you can go on to a website of Irish hardware retailer and find out for yourself that Ireland still uses imperial pipes. Or perhaps, if you have a couple of Irish mates you could also ask them. I also created a new section on certain exceptions to Irish metrification, in order to help readers with no prior knowledge get a better understanding of the exceptions. I do not appreciate the fact you deleted everything I added, you could have at least left me a message discussing what you didn't like about my additions. I will be restoring my addition on the section "Plumbing" if you do not give me a valid response explaining the problems or errors with my addition, as the information I added was factually correct.

Kind regards Unofficialwikicorrector (talk) 17:46, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Unofficialwikicorrector, I gave my reasons in my edit summary. Please read WP:VER for further information on how to make content verifiable. Personal experience/knowledge needs to be supported by reliable sources making the same points. So links to hardware retailers will not suffice, that would be reverted as being original research. What you need are reliable sources supporting exactly what you write in the article. So if you write Ireland continues to use imperial pipe diameters for both copper and plastic pipe diameters and measures pipe treads in inches or fractions of an inch, you need a source that says exactly that, and not a link to a shop selling such stuff. -- DeFacto (talk). 18:18, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for letting me know. Whenever I am adding information to a wikipedia article, I try to ensure that the information is correct and backed up evidence in order to keep Wikipedia as reliable as possible. Please also know there is a difference between piping and tubing. Ireland uses millimetres for tubing diameter, but that isn't the case for pipes. The problem is since it a specific topic, there are not many official sources from it is possible to prove Ireland uses imperial pipes. So you have to work with what you have and as far as I'm concerned, my additions were more reliable and attest had some proof, unlike what was previously there. I had a look at the official Irish pipe standards (NSAI) and while I couldn't find any resource that explicitly stated Ireland is required to use Imperial sized pipes, there were many references to inches being used to measure the inner diameter and thread size. From what I can understand, Irish piping standards are simply based off of the older British piping standards. If you will not allow my additions to the plumbing section on this wikipedia article, I at least ask you delete the plumbing section as a whole. Second of all, you still haven't explained why you removed my "exceptions to metrication" section.

Unofficialwikicorrector (talk) 18:45, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Unofficialwikicorrector, as I said, I removed it because you didn't provide reliable sources to support it. Did you read WP:VER? -- DeFacto (talk). 19:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

You still didn't respond on what I should do to do regarding evidence of Ireland using imperial pipe sizes., sinceI checked NSAI and I was only able to gather small excerpts of evidence because you have to pay to access the bloody official piping standards. So unless you want me to pay 100 euros for a pdf, there aren't any other resources I think can be cited. Second of all, everything I wrote in the exception section had previously been cited. Unofficialwikicorrector (talk) 19:26, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Unofficialwikicorrector, the thing you have to do is provide reliable sources to support what you write - to make it verifiable. Usually if something is notable there will be sources supporting it. Maybe you need to search more widely or visit a library. If there are no such sources then it probably isn't worth noting. Where are the cites supporting what you wrote? Why didn't you use them in what you wrote? -- DeFacto (talk). 19:44, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

One other thing, I'm looking through the article and a source you stated was unreliable in my edit was cited previously on the plumbing section before I edited it. Also the plumbing section had no other citations before I revamped it so at least I had a bit of proof. Unofficialwikicorrector (talk) 19:40, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Unofficialwikicorrector, feel free to restore anything you think was reliably sourced by an existing source, but be sure to re-cite it if it might be unclear which source it is. -- DeFacto (talk). 20:26, 3 October 2020 (UTC)