Talk:Mesut Özil/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Birthplace

Really born in Gelsenkirchen West Germany? Its only Germany. We are not in the 1980s — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.217.124.123 (talk) 23:36, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

We are not in the 80s, but he was born in the 80s, before reunification. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:27, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi guys but i am changing his nationality to Turkish- German even though all of his family is Turkish . just writing a german football player is misleading the reader. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sam alen (talk • contribs) 16:18, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

If you do, it will be reverted. Please see above and the archives for a full discussion of the issue. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:16, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

I don't think it should be reverted and I don't really have a (mono)nationalist stake in this issue (I'm second-generation American, Chinese-German)...both sides seem to be arguing from a very limited mind-set, i.e. a person can *only* be Turkish or *only* be German, Oezil is a synthesis of Turkish ethnicity and German culture (I know, it's impossible to ever completely differentiate between ethnicity and culture, but saying he's only one or the other erases a big part of who he is).Historian932 (talk) 12:41, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

His nationality is German. His FIFA nationality is German. This has been discussed extensively. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:29, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

there's also one thing you don't seem to know. being a german citizen he needed to lay down turkish citizenship at one point (certain age). so he can't be both now. 217.93.164.64 (talk) 20:03, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

He can, and did, carry both. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:26, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Article 66 of Turkish constitution states that a person is Turkish, if they have any of; a) A knowledge of the Turkish language (Ozil does) b) Relatives in Turkey (Ozil does in Zonguldak) c) A Turkish ancestry (Ozil does)

Therefore, I conclude Ozil is Turkish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.85.54.150 (talk) 19:19, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

This isn't the constitution of Turkey. It's Wikipedia. Here, the rules about citizenship are a bit different. First, He plays for the German national football team. According to FIFA rules, that makes him German. Since this is a Wikipedia article about a football player, we have to consider his FIFA nationality first. Second, he renounced his Turkish citizenship. He's not Turkish. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:10, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

acutally he is turkish. he just does not have turkish citizenship. until the age of 18 özil did not even have german citizenship. he is a naturalised german. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.118.160.96 (talk) 16:05, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Özil Naturalised German

özil is a naturlised german. he received german citizenship at the age of 18. before that he was turkish citzen. i think you should mention that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.118.160.96 (talk) 16:01, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 2 September 2013m of Mesut Ozil

ozil plays for English club Arsenal FC it has been confirmed that he is concluding a medical in Munich and will arrive at the Emraites in a few hours as well as him hinting a move to the team on Twitter in all honesty this means he is a player for the club similar to the Bale situation where he hinted on social networking sites that he is on his way to the Bernaubua KrushedNutz (talk) 19:28, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

 Not done Could you post the source? He is not Arsenal player until he is confirmed by Arsenal. QED237 (talk) 19:32, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Jerome Boateng posted a photo on facebook with Özil, who is in Munich, and said "Good luck at Arsenal". Still a RS needs to be "found". Kante4 (talk) 19:40, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes that is true, I follow every media possible all day and It feels like 98-99 % chance he will play in Arsenal. But as you also say, we need a reliable source. (The best is Arsenal homepage) before making any edits. It must be confirmed. QED237 (talk) 19:44, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 2 September 2013

Mesut Özil has officially been signed by Arsenal source: The Daily Mail published at 20:21 GMT headline: "EXCLUSIVE: Ozil joins Arsenal from Madrid for £42.5m as Wenger smashes club record" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2408697/Mesut-Ozil-signs-Arsenal-Real-Madrid-42-5million.html

As well as goal.com and whatculture.com also confirming this signing. 92.236.39.99 (talk) 20:34, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

 Not done We need official confirmation from Arsenal's website (www.arsenal.com). --ArsenalFan700 (talk) 20:39, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

I've reduced the protection back to semi, while it would perhaps be better to wait for the official announcement, the Dailymail and Goal.com reporting it are enough to satisfy WP:BLP, and the protection was due to a complete lack of sources. I will leave it to someone else to make the edit as they see fit. Monty₈₄₅ 21:04, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

I feel like daily mail are a pretty good source but goal is rubbish. I rather wait for him to be confirmed on arsenal homepage. QED237 (talk) 21:05, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

It's on the website now... http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/german-international-ozil-joins-arsenal — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.0.83.251 (talk) 21:31, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

No, "the deal is subject to the completion of regulatory processes." It's clearly not done. Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:49, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Arsenal 2013-14

Arsenal have confirmed the signing of Mesut Ozil on the 2nd of Septemberfor a club record fee of £42.4million. Ozil has just finished his medical at Germany and is ready to sign the documentation sheets. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kilza986 (talk • contribs) 15:08, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Ready to sign does not mean that it is confirmed. No changes will be made until everything is signed and confirmed by Arsenal. QED237 (talk) 15:21, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

J.Ahmed 15:14, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Do you have a source? It is not confirmed yet from what I know and nothing on Arsenal homepage. Until there is a reliable source with Arsenal confirming it will not be edited. QED237 (talk) 15:20, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

 Not done Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:24, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Based on the application of this "transfer" to this article by various editors, I have requested full page protection. It has been approved until 16:38, 5 September 2013 (UTC). If the transfer is completed and Özil is added to Arsenal's roster prior to that time, feel free to add {{Edit protected}} here, with a reliable source to support the request. I, or another editor, can request that the page return to its previous state once that has been resolved.

I doubt that the request will be approved without a reliable source. Walter Görlitz (talk) 17:08, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

ozil has now signed check website — Preceding unsigned comment added by Editor1999997 (talk • contribs) 20:41, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Not according to Arsenal homepage. QED237 (talk) 20:44, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Ozil has signed with Arsenal and will be playing for them in the 2013-2014 year. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.7.221.246 (talk) 17:36, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Source? It will happen but wait for an official statement. Kante4 (talk) 17:38, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

It doesn't even need to be an official statement, just a high quality Reliable Source. Monty₈₄₅ 17:44, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Bild is reporting it as a done deal and they were always right but it's not a RS i say. Same for the picture of the Özil jersey with #11 from Arsenal. Kante4 (talk) 17:51, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Question؟

Hi Walter Görlitz,Ethnicity Mesut Özil is a Turk or kurd?--'''SAMƏK''' (talk) 22:31, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Neither. As you can see from the discussions above, he's a German. The anon above is wrong. He was born in Germany and that makes him a German. Before the age of 18 he held both a German and a Turkish passport but he relinquished the Turkish passport at that point. Another Turkish nationalist provided that information. It can be found in the archives. Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:46, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

No, being born in Germany does not make you German. Having a German ethnicity makes you German. He is Turkish born in Germany. 24.84.89.151 (talk) 14:48, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Having German citizenship from birth makes you a German. I have German ethnicity and I am not legally a German. Walter Görlitz (talk) 17:10, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Arsenal have signed Mesut Ozil from Real Madrid for a club-record £42.5million. The midfielder signs on a five-year deal worth £140,000-a-week after he had a medical in Germany on Monday, despite Paris Saint-Germain coming in with a more lucrative offer earlier in the day. Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger first tracked the midfielder six years ago, but Ozil has now been convinced to join the club by Germany team-mates Per Mertesacker and Lucas Podolski. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.20.41.156 (talk) 20:15, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Source? It is not done until it is official. QED237 (talk) 20:17, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Mesuts family is Turkish origin and comes from the Black Sea region in northern Turkey! His sister, Nese Özil, says explicitly on her facebook site, that they are NOT kurds, they are TURKS! Everyone can go there and can covince himself on his own! https://www.facebook.com/ozil.nese?hc_location=stream — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.23.254.78 (talk) 06:12, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

The Facebook link doesn't really say much. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:19, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Kurdish source reverts by Walter Görlitz

Hi. I just have a simple question if you reverted the edit you wanted with this edit. First you undid a blog and someone added the same content again with an other IP. After that someone updated the stats and you reverted that with copyvio and that it was copy of the blog as reason for reverting. Where you supposed to revert/undo the added content and not the stats update? QED237 (talk) 20:57, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. I have corrected that now. Not sure why the wrong revision was reverted. And to clarify, it was the same blog simply published under another name, not that a different user posted the same blog. That item has been published multiple times, and it's not that the total number of times that it's been published makes it more reliable, it's that it's a blog. It's not that the material contained in the blog is wrong, it's that it's from an unknown source and WP:RS doesn't permit us to use sources like that.

I have no doubts that Özil's heritage is Kurdish, which is to say not the generic "Turkish" that we have listed, but we need a reliable source to support the fact that he's Kurdish. Also, this article is no more the place to work through the Kurdish–Turkish conflict than is any football player's article the place to add fuel to discussion of Catalan separatism. Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:08, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

ASSISTS

Why aren't any of his assists stats there? They're the most important. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.28.63.3 (talk) 13:50, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Because after discussions on WT:FOOTY assist should not be included. One of the reason is that there is not clear definition of what an assist is and differnet sources have different numbers. Some sources even give an assist to the player creating a penalty. QED237 (talk) 14:24, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

These blanket references to the footy project have to stop. For the following reasons:

• Projects do not have jurisdiction over pages. They are meant to facilitate, not meant to impose rules on the rest. What circumscribes the scope and powers of projects otherwise? Each article should be treated on its own merits, and where commonalities should prevail, of course there is no issue.
• This dovetails with the second point which is this: It is possible to find sources that satisfy Wikipedian rules on sources. Certain leagues keep proper records of assists. That assists may vary across sources is no argument -- and this collapses the definitional objection as well. This happens to many things in Wikipedia. Even within football articles, there are disputes as to heights, birthplaces, and even goals. So? Inconsistencies can be explained in footnotes. Wikipedia is about verifiability, not truth. But the larger point is that there are proper official records kept by leagues for assists. That assists have not been recorded since football began is also no argument. We make do with whatever information emerges with record-keeping. In many sports, many assists were not recorded till the last couple of decades as well. Do we discard such statistics? Finally, another common argument is assists are not important (and ergo clean sheets, yellow cards, etc). It can be accepted that goals and appearances are the most "important" statistics. But this shouldn't preclude the inclusion of assists.
• The third point is that it is simply unprincipled to say assists cannot be mentioned in tables, but can be mentioned in the prose. I don't think anyone can seriously object to statements in the prose about a player having x number of assists in this season and so on and so forth. This is usually because of a combination of any of the reasons: (1) the statement is properly sourced; (2) the statistic is probably inherently notable/noteworthy -- and I don't mean in the quantitative sense; (3) it gives a more complete picture of the player's contribution, particularly if he is an attacking-oriented player. If the argument ultimately hinges on "there is no consistent source for assists", then really, for that sake alone, please let us never see anything in the prose about assists ever again.
• These reasons have been canvassed many times before, but are often ignored by the project gatekeepers. And if you do a count, you will see a substantial number of people discussing on the project that support these points, notwithstanding the fact that projects have no jurisdiction over pages and sheer majoritarian oppression is no basis to force others to submit to a point of view.
• Going forward, where a player's assist statistics can be reliably sourced, I don't see why such information cannot be included. It would mean that some statistics may be missing, if for instance he spends in a season or two in a league that doesn't keep such records. But incompleteness does not suffice as a bar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.107.20 (talk) 14:33, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Excellent points. The simple reason is it can't be easily referenced and sources conflict. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:40, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

But by editing your statements after I commented you make me a liar.

Your "simply unprincipled" and "going forward" points are not at all excellent and miss an obvious issue: assists can't be reliably sourced, which is why no articles do include them. Some newspaper editors will indicate that the player made an assist when the league records don't consider it to be an assist. So now we have contradicting sources. And I've even seen reliable sources that list goals and assists differ on assists. That clearly makes at least one unreliable, if not both. And your "majoritarian oppression" is what we like to call WP:CONSENSUS. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:30, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

The only reason WT:FOOTY is being used is to get consensus for all football articles instead of discussion the same thing on every talkpages. It is perfectly fine to do so. And as Walter Görlitz do not edit after someone respond on your comment. QED237 (talk) 15:36, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

How are assists not reliably sourced? If premierleague.com sources it, why is unreliable? If the UCL website sources it, why is it unreliable? If the La Liga website sources it, why is it unreliable? If your argument really is different websites have different numbers, why is that a problem? You are conflating reliability with perfect veracity and perfect external consistency. If notable scholars dispute the historicity of Jesus' life, shall we pretend he didn't exist? QED, you have basically offered nothing in rebuttal, so I won't need to reply you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.107.20 (talk) 00:36, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

If they do, then those would be RSes for that league. Please find a RS for every other league in which Özil has played rather than leave gaps, which other editors will fill in with material form some fan site or other source that does not meet RS. Once that's done, and you have provided sources for every league and season for this specific player, then we can discuss every other league and every other season and every other player. Keep up the good work.

As for Jesus, we're not talking about him, but if you find a RS for his goals and assists, I'll be the first to add ithem to that section. Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:45, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Would anyone object to espn (click career tab)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.107.20 (talk) 01:43, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

For all the reasons I gave immediately before this, yes, I would object. Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:46, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Except of course it'll be a rubbish objection and the allusion to "reasons" illusory. It's an RS. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.107.20 (talk) 04:09, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry. The only rubbish I see here is your weak opinion on this subject. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:14, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Pathetic assertions and disingenuous reasoning in the extreme... there are football FAs and GAs that use espn as sources. So those are misapplications of RS? Clearly you are not interested in reasoning, preferring to assert and cross-reference nothing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.107.20 (talk) 04:16, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

You're right. I'm sorry. Your source was fine for one league, but we need the other leagues. Clearly not willing to provide reliable sources for all of those because you had no time constraints for doing so and you only presented one. You are clearly only interested in obfuscating. I trust that your next response will be reliable sources for all of Özil's assists and not more partial responses to reasonable requests. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:27, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

For what it is worth i think generally ESPN is a reliable source, but in the assist case they are not, since we dont know what definition of assist they use and it might differ from the actual league. If asssist is to be included it must be the official league stats. QED237 (talk) 10:03, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Yet an editor thinks it is reliable. I'll go with not for now and allow you two to discuss why it is or isn't a RS. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:45, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Just in case you missed the discussion at the Footy project, it's presently here: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football#Assists but will likely be moved to an archive at some point. Since Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Archive 80 is filling quickly, it may 81 or even 82, depending on how long the discussion continues. Walter Görlitz (talk) 07:31, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

I think you should show Mesut Ozil's assist record for his clubs as that is what most people know him for and want to know about him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Inny16 (talk • contribs) 00:13, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Image

If the image is too small for you, go to your preferences, the appearance tab: Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering and change the size of your thumbnail. While making a larger image doesn't go against Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Images or WP:ImageSize, it's not necessary to have a large image. Why do we suddenly need the subject's image to be larger? Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:22, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Once more, this argument can be extended by the very same reasoning to the opposite side - i.e., if the image is too large for you, go to your preferences and change the size of the thumbnail. There is no reason to have the image so small that you can barely see the player's face; compare articles for Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Van Persie, Buffon, Podolski, Falcao, etc. And while 200px is hardly even "large" for most computer monitors as you insist it is, I hope we can compromise on 175px which is, at the very most, medium. Raudys (talk) 14:30, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

I can only change the size of a thumbnail if you do not use an absolute size. If the size is listed as a thumbnail or frameless, that's when it's a thumbnail, otherwise it's an image. Other stuff exists is not a reason to change this image. I don't insist it's too large, I insist that you're asserting control over the image and remove it from the reader. Walter Görlitz (talk) 13:46, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

The problem appears to be with a style change. I've seen a number of templates requiring an update to resolve that problem. Thumbnails no longer render correctly unless an upright parameter is added. I'll bring it up at the template and revert here when it is resolved. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:18, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Turkish origin

WP:OPENPARA only applies for those of "Turkish origin" Mr. Görlitz? Can you explain to me Margareta Kozuch, Ioannis Masmanidis, Michael Kutzop, Rafik Schami, Marco Huck, Andrea Petkovic, Ernst Vögelin, Carl Tchilinghiryan, Jeanette Spassova, Hermann Minkowski, Isolda Dychauk, Ivan Rebroff and hundreds.. I'm beginning to think that it is no longer obsessed. Hopefully, you will not have to new edit war in this regard just like Cem Özdemir. – Maurice Flesier (talk) 15:16, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

There a hundreds of examples that WP:OPENPARA does apply - the mistakes of other articles are absolutely not relevant for this one. --77.181.254.18 (talk) 19:05, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure what the anon from Stadtbezirk, Germany is talking about, but it could be along the lines of WP:OTHERSTUFF. Discussing his Turkish origin is discussing his ethnicity. In short, he's a German footballer. His ethnicity doesn't come into play. He's not famous for being Turkish, but for playing a sport for several professional teams and one national team. Both WP:OPENPARA and WP:MOSBIO stated that ethnicity should not be mentioned, "unless it is relevant to the subject's notability". Rebroff sang primarily in Russian (my mother had several of his albums) and so it's relevant there. I fixed the others you listed. However, I'm not the only editor to have reverted your edits and there are many who discussed it in the archives. Please don't address your comments to me. Also, consensus here (see the archives) has regularly been to not list Turkish at all in the lede.

Also, don't directly link to subjects like you did above, use colons instead. The link remain intact while if you look at the other article and click what links here, this talk page wouldn't be linked in those cases. Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:13, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

What are you talking about? I was supporting your point that the articles mentioned as examples by MF are not relevant for this article and that WP:OPENPARA (meaning NOT to mention ethnicity) does apply - what's wrong with you? My comment is as much WP:OTHERSTUFF, than yours. --77.10.105.24 (talk) 03:26, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

I suspected that, but wanted to be sure. Thanks for the clarification. Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:49, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

No hard feelings! Thanks for getting back to me. --77.10.105.24 (talk) 03:58, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

I would agree with Walter Gorlitz that ethnicity should not be included in the lede sentence unless it is the reason for the subjects notability per WP:BLPLEAD. Thanks to Maurice Flesier for pointing out those others bio and for Walter Gorlitz "fixing" them, classic. --Malerooster (talk) 21:01, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Edit request

Per WP:OPENPARAGRAPH, the content that was added here [1] is not relevant, as "Ethnicity or sexuality should not generally be emphasized". Ozil is a THIRD-generation German-Turk. His parents were born in Germany. Ozil was born in Germany and he is a German citizen only - his name is pronounced in German. Please remove.--77.181.52.109 (talk) 20:26, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

 Not done--Malerooster (talk) 21:40, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Thank you.--77.181.52.109 (talk) 22:54, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

It has nothing to do with ethnicity. This pronunciation topic and there are many examples. Pedro Álvares Cabral is featured article but Portuguese and Brazilan port. used here. And another FA example: Satyajit Ray is Indian but Bengali pronunciation available as Bengali ethnicity. Maurice Flesier (talk) 09:29, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Otherstuff exists is never a good argument. Why is it being including would be my question? --Malerooster (talk) 13:59, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

WP:OSE/WP:OTHERSTUFF is usually about article deletion, but it does have application to content discussions.

I don't mind that the material is present in the lede as the subject does have Turkish heritage, however consensus has been to not include the material here to avoid edit wars. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:11, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 July 2014

Please add the following Charity subsection under the Personal life section:

Charity

As part of the BigShoe project, Mesut Ozil donated his 2014 World Cup winnings to pay for 23 sick Brazilian children to have surgery as a 'personal thank you for the hospitality of the people of Brazil'.[2]

Elrodd84 (talk) 17:36, 17 July 2014 (UTC)elrodd84

Done I fixed the ref up and the header up a little. —cyberpower ^Chat_Online 12:38, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 August 2014

Add the following:

• FA Community Shield: 2014

to the list of honors under Arsenal.

Thank you.

76.66.90.11 (talk) 16:52, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

 Not done No we will not since he was not in the squad. He did not play and was not even on the bench. QED237 (talk) 17:15, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Community Shield 2014 to honors — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wbrf (talk • contribs)

Read what I wrote above. NO, he was not in squad. QED237 (talk) 23:56, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Arsenal appearance totals are wrong

Arsenal appearance totals are wrong: 40+6=42 ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.68.169.148 (talk) 11:57, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Recent Developments

Request the addition of information regarding the Arsenal vs Aston Villa match held on Saturday 21st September, 2014:

Ӧzil scored his first goal of the 2014-2015 season during Arsenal's 3-0 win over Aston Villa in September. This game also saw Ӧzil provide an assist for Danny Welbeck's first Arsenal goal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RaxManlar (talk • contribs) 10:21, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Please provide a reference. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:02, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 October 2014

please add "FA Community Shield 2014" to Honours section. he did not played the game, but he was/is player of the winning arsenal team. Zipsy7 (talk) 17:17, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

 Not done He was not part of the team; he wasn't even on the bench! JMHamo (talk) 17:20, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

2014 FIFA World Cup

It doesn't say in the intro that he won the 2014 World Cup with Germany. It mentions 2010 World Cup and 2012 European Championships only. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.155.239.138 (talk) 13:34, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Mesut Özil is of ethnic Turkish origin, not Kurdish

• This is a no brainer, really. Özil's ancestors hail from Devrek, a town in northwestern Turkey. He said this on live TV. Actually, he even visited Devrek and this was reported by the media. Needless to say, Devrek is totally devoid of any Kurdish population past and present. I'm guessing that some people might have thought that Özil may have chosen to play in the German national team instead of the Turkish one because of a possible Kurdish origin (indeed, a considerable portion of the Turkish diaspora in Germany are actually ethnic Kurds). However, this is clearly not the case here. --Mttll (talk) 04:02, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Actually, the no-brainer is that there's a reliable source. Reverting. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:29, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Actually, the no-brainer is that there's countless reliable sources clearly stating that he's Turkish. Not able to reply intelligently, eh, Walter? There are NO Kurds in Devrek and that goes for the remainder of Mesut's family which still lives there. (See link ---> https://instagram.com/p/qaWKtNwszY/?taken-by=m10_official <---- )

So A Kurd cannot be a Truk as well. Explain how that works. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:21, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

It was an intelligent reply. Sorry you didn't see that. The problem appears to be that you assume that a Kurd can't be a Turk as well. They can. Kurds are an ethnic group. They do not yet have a nation of their own. I don't know if they will or if the idea of nationalism will die before that happens. I explained that below, to one of your replies made there.

The problem is that Turkish nationalists assume that people who are Turks give up all right to be any other ethnicity. There are Kurds who have Turkish citizenship. There are Kurds who have Iraqi citizenship. There are Arminians who have Turkish citizenship. There are Arminians who have Syrian citizenship. Shall I continue? A person can be both a Turk and Kurd at the same time. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:10, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

• How is worldsoccer.about.com a reliable source concerning the ethnic origin of people from Turkey again? As far as I can see, it is a fairly gullible website, casually circulating a hoax. A hoax wouldn't be a hoax if there were no sources circulating it. There are probably a million sources out there which allege that Barack Obama is a Muslim, yet no sane person would expect Wikipedia to espouse that view. We can always look at first-hand sources: There is no statement by Özil saying that he has Kurdish origin. On the other hand, there are countless media material showing that Özil's ancestors are from Devrek in northwestern Turkey. Here is a video of Özil visiting Devrek and meeting with its mayor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwLe-I4rkHU. Right now, the article looks particularly ridiculous because it says Özil's ancestors are from Devrek and ethnic Kurds. For anyone who knows anything about Turkey, those are mutually exclusive claims. This is where Devrek is, and this is where Turkish Kurds live. --Mttll (talk) 06:01, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

First, thanks for stopping the edit war until a consensus is changed.

You'll do a lot better if you drop the trash talk.

Özil visiting Devrek is no proof of his ethnicity. Its location is also no proof of his ethnicity. I have a varied ethnicity (German and Mennonite) and yet when I visit the place my parents were born (Paraguay and the USSR) I am not saying that my ethnicity is from those places. People move but their ethnicity does not necessarily change when they move.

It's so sad Walter seeing you write on subjects you clearly know nothing about in the pursuit of this obsession of yours. Ozil visiting Devrek is proof that he's NOT a Kurd as anyone can tell you that there are no Kurds living there. Look at election results for Devrek (voting is mandatory in Turkey by the way) for God's sake. Kurdist PKK-linked parties (HDP/BDP) that people like you fawn over received ZERO votes from the people of Devrek. This is in contrast to the big cites Kurds move to where where you'll see Kurds exclusively vote for such Kurdish nationalist PKK-linked parties. (See link ---> https://instagram.com/p/qaWKtNwszY/?taken-by=m10_official <---- )

About.com is considered a reliable source and we have to take Stewart Coggin that he researched the subject. If you would like to take up its reliability at WP:RSN, feel free too.

Um, About.com is NOT considered a reliable source and it's literally an ad-ridden amateur copy-paste of Wikipedia. (See link ---> https://instagram.com/p/qaWKtNwszY/?taken-by=m10_official <---- )

Who is this "Stewart Coggin"? His text is clearly a copy-paste of Wikipedia and other places. "Stewart Coggin's word"? Who is he that we have to take his "word" about anything as opposed to the countless professional sources that indicate that Ozil is Turkish. (See link ---> https://instagram.com/p/qaWKtNwszY/?taken-by=m10_official <---- )

The other option is not to mention anything about his heritage and only mention his FIFA-recognized nationality and that of his nation of birth: Germany. Walter Görlitz (talk) 08:03, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

And here we see your old agenda, as indicated by your edit history, of removing indication of Mesut's Turkish ethnic origin. For years, you were arguing that there should be no reference to Mesut's well-documented Turkishness (while allowing Podolski's Polishness to be stated) and now you've resorted to making him a Kurd. So this is your way to get rid of indication of his Mesut's confirmed Turkish origin? So in your world, he can only either be a German or a Kurd (or both) and not the Turk that 99.9...% of sources (including himself) have confirmed him to be? (See link ---> https://instagram.com/p/qaWKtNwszY/?taken-by=m10_official <---- )

• No, I'm afraid wikilawyering won't do here. Let me give you a proper analogy: Imagine a Scottish-American actor traveling to Scotland, telling the media his family originated somewhere in northern Scotland, visiting the village his ancestors lived, meeting with his uncle who still lived there, etc etc. Now imagine Wikipedia saying that this actor was in fact Welsh just because some website says so. I'm sorry, that doesn't make sense to me. --Mttll (talk) 09:51, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

You're right, your wikilawyering won't do. You have no sources that say he isn't Kurdish. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:58, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

That's ridiculous. Why would they go out of their way to write anything about Kurds? An article would write "the ethnically Turkish Mesut Ozil", not "the ethnically Turkish, Mesut Ozil (who by the way isn't Kurdish)". Why would they even have to mention if it they already confirm that he's Turkish. (See link ---> https://instagram.com/p/qaWKtNwszY/?taken-by=m10_official <---- )

No sources? How about the 99.999% of biographical articles about him which state that he is Turkish, therefore NOT a Kurd.  :) (See link ---> https://instagram.com/p/qaWKtNwszY/?taken-by=m10_official <---- )

• There are countless sources that say Özil's ancestors are Turks that originate in Devrek, Zonguldak in northwestern Turkey, a place that has no Kurdish population either as a native minority or internal immigrants from southeastern Turkey. You won't find any sources that say Özil's ancestors are Kurds that originate in Devrek, Zonguldak in northwestern Turkey, because it is a logical impossibility; there is only the hoax that Özil is a Kurd from Diyarbakır, which is obviously not true. What kind of source do you want? Do you want Özil to address the hoax and explicitly say he is not of Kurdish origin? --Mttll (talk) 16:38, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

It seems you have lost the point yet again. No one is arguing against that they last lived in Devrek, Zonguldak. Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:34, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

"last lived"? They didn't live anywhere before that! There you are with your ridiculous obsession again. (See link ---> https://instagram.com/p/qaWKtNwszY/?taken-by=m10_official <---- )

Actually, are arguing against that they lived in Devrek because THERE ARE NO KURDS in Devrek. Why is this so hard for you to understand? (See link ---> https://instagram.com/p/qaWKtNwszY/?taken-by=m10_official <---- )

• They 'didn't last live in Devrek, Zonguldak', they originate in the village of Hışıroğlu in the district of Devrek in the province of Zonguldak in the Black Sea coast of northwestern Turkey. Their relatives who didn't immigrate to Germany still live there. This much pinpointing is very rarely possible for the origin of celebrities. Again, there is no native Kurdish population in Zonguldak (so no Kurdish rural population/villages in Zonguldak), and no Kurdish immigrants as a result of internal immigration in Zonguldak unlike in, for example, Istanbul (then again, this doesn't matter, as it is known that they were native to Zonguldak). As I said, absolutely no-brainer for anyone who knows anything about Turkey. --Mttll (talk) 06:33, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

If you say so. Do you have a reference to support that and that they're not Kurdish?

Yes, the bajillion articles on the internet which make it clear that he is Turkish, and therefore NOT Kurdish. (See link ---> https://instagram.com/p/qaWKtNwszY/?taken-by=m10_official <---- )

If "he says so"? Basic information about Devrek is not a matter of opinion. (See link ---> https://instagram.com/p/qaWKtNwszY/?taken-by=m10_official <---- )

The only absolute "no-brainer" is that there is a RS that states he's of Kurdish ancestry and from that region. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:39, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

No, Walter, the absolute "no-brainer" is that he's of Turkish ancestry from Devrek just like every other person in Devrek as stated by countless articles. Also, something from about.com is not an "RS" (reliable source) especially if it is obviously copy-pasting previous error-ridden versions of this Wikipedia article. (See link ---> https://instagram.com/p/qaWKtNwszY/?taken-by=m10_official <---- )

• 1. A simple Google search will give you countless sources saying Özil is of Turkish origin, one of them is quoted in this article: Link.
• 2. No, it does not. It just says "Ozil, a third-generation member of the Kurdish community in Germany," in the beginning (and then says "Despite being the son of third generation Turkish immigrants, Ozil pledged his international future to Germany at an early age." in the end). No mention of Devrek or Zonguldak. --Mttll (talk) 10:23, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Stop using bullets. This isn't a debate, it's a discussion.

1. The two classes, Turkish and Kurdish, are not mutually exclusive. Find a reliable source that says he is not Kurdish.
2. You've lost me again. The article clearly states "His ancestors are from Devrek, Zonguldak in North-Western Turkey". Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:25, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Walter, they are ethnically mutually exclusive. Ironically the Kurdish nationalists who people like you pander to make a point of this. You don't get to cry "time-out" when it backfires on you as it clearly is here. He is ethnically Turkish as stated by countless articles. (See link ---> https://instagram.com/p/qaWKtNwszY/?taken-by=m10_official <---- ) Find a reliable source that states he is not Turkish.

Can be. Thanks. Not are. Pretty clear. Kurds are an ethic group who primarily lived in parts of what is modern-day Turkey and Iraq. A Kurd can hold a Turkish passport. He is a German citizen, whose ancestors used to live in Turkey. That does not mean he does not have Kurdish blood. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:49, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

• 1. "Turkish" and "Kurdish" can be mutually exclusive if used in the ethnic sense. Why don't you find me a reliable source that says he is not ethnic Turkish?
• 2. You are indeed lost. Wikipedia cites two different articles: One of them says that his family originates in Devrek (http://www.sabah.com.tr/spor/2010/06/27/mesut_ozilin_hayali_barca), while the other says that Özil is a member of the Kurdish community in Germany (http://worldsoccer.about.com/od/players/p/Mesut-Ozil.htm). --Mttll (talk) 08:52, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Özil is not a Kurd there is not a single Kurd in his village, this is outright Wikipedia vandalism, he is from the North-Western are of Zonguldak, he speaks Turkish not Kurdish, he says he is Turkish not Kurdish, his family are Turkish not Kurdish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.157.20.143 (talk) 15:28, 22 January 2015 (UTC) Özil is ethnic Turkish, he has said this countless times, there is not one first hand source in existence claiming otherwise, he is from a rural Turkish area in North-Western Turkey with no ethnic Kurdish population, it is like saying Granada in Spain is a Basque area, it is a joke... — Preceding unsigned comment added by TFooty (talk • contribs) 15:38, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Mate, I am of Georgian origin, not Turkish. And i can tell you that Özil is really Turkish. His hometown doesnt have any Kurdish population at all. Check these statements

• 'I will always be Turkish' - Why Ozil is worshipped in Istanbul
• I'm third-generation Turkish; I was born here, I am happy here and I am proud to play for Germany.

also Walter Gorlitz has an obsession with this issue, if you check the archives, you will see it. I have added these refs and they comply with WP:RS. If he reverts them, i will apply for WP:AIV kazekagetr 09:12, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

They do comply with V and R but fail with WP:OPENPARA and MOS:BIO. No discussion of ethnicity in the lede unless it directly relates to his notability. He's notable because he's a footballer, not because of his hertiage. That is discussed in the article. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:56, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, he does. If you look at his edit history, for years he has been looking for anyway to remove reference to Mesut's Turkish ethnic background. Seems to be his nightmare.  :) (See link ---> https://instagram.com/p/qaWKtNwszY/?taken-by=m10_official <---- )

your obbsession with this article leads to WP:JUSTDONLIKEIT and WP:OWN. co-operate with the facts of face WP:AIV. kazekagetr 09:08, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Your nationalism is the problem. I'm following WP:OPENPARA and MOS:BIO. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:21, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

The only "nationalism" here is yours which is feeding into your obsession with erasing any mention of Mesut's Turkish ethnic background. Your history indicates an obsession for years with erasing mentions of Mesut's Turkish ethnic origin.

I have followed this discussion for a while, without responding because I know how nationalistic people can be. We should NEVER list ethnicity and such info in opening paragraph and lead and there is reliable source for the "kurdish" statement. Threatening with AIV that I can not understand, what are you trying to achieve with that, it is no way near vandalism and why would User:Walter Görlitz be blocked for following guidelines? If I where you I would not make threats of blocking. QED237 (talk) 19:06, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

What "reliable source? about.com is an amateur website which basically copy-pastes whatever is on Wiki. Are you suggesting that undoes the countless truly RELIABLE sources which confirm that he is Turkish. He can't be ethnically both at the same time so make a decision. Why not take it from the most authoritative source of of all, Mesut Ozil's own official instagram where he even put up this graphic. You'll note that it is a TURKISH flag that he has embedded inside the German flag, NOT anything indicating "kurdishness" (See link ---> https://instagram.com/p/qaWKtNwszY/?taken-by=m10_official <---- ) In fact there is NO reference to anything "Kurdish" on his instagram or anywhere on the internet from him. You'll note that your strange friend Walter has a long obsessive history on this article. In fact, right here in this discussion you see him using the Kurdish lie to get any mention of Mesut's Turkishness erased. Walter, above, writes "The other option is not to mention anything about his heritage and only mention his FIFA-recognized nationality and that of his nation of birth: Germany." How about you look at his edit history going back years and looking at his agenda? He's gone from arguing that only Mesut's country of birth should be mentioned to now arguing, laughably, that he is a Kurd. Basically, it's important for him that Mesut not be listed as an ethnic Turk. (See link ---> https://instagram.com/p/qaWKtNwszY/?taken-by=m10_official <---- )

Well i believe you have heard WP:OWN? And his obsession with this issue (check archives) makes him a candidate for questioning, which most likely lead to WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT.. kazekagetr 19:43, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

What has that to do with AIV? Do you even know what AIV is? (A tip it is short for "administrator intervention against vandalism", is this vandalism?). And have you read the actual guidelines he refers to? QED237 (talk) 22:01, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

According to his own words, KazekageTR is a communist from Turkey who is Georgian ancestry. I called him here as a person who knows Turkey very well (such as the demographics of Zonguldak etc.) and yet cannot be possibly accused of having a Turkish nationalist bias. Anyhow, I made this edit:

According to Özil's own words and the vast majority of sources, his ancestors are ethnic Turks from Devrek, Zonguldak in northwestern Turkey. However, there are some sources in the Internet that claim Özil's ancestors are ethnic Kurds from Diyarbakır.

This eliminates undue weight problem. --Mttll (talk) 05:49, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Agree. Thanks for the addition. I softened the wording. Removed "vast" and "in the Internet" and removed the WP:OVERLINKs to Turkish people and Kurdish people. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:03, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

@QED237, let me enlighten you, WP:AIV applies to situations like these pretty well, i(with the help of other editors) have handled lots of POV, sockpuppet and OWN issues using AIV. And i am happy that issue has been solved. kazekagetr 16:07, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

@KazekageTR: The admins at AIV would have told you that situations you mention are not cases of vandalism. POV and ownership would likely be directed to WP:ANI, although extreme cases might be directed to WP:AN3, while sockpuppetry would be directed to WP:SPI. Vandalism has clear boundaries that would not be met by the criteria you described.

It's good that an editor actually understood the changes you were trying to make and made them. It wasn't clear to me at all. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:46, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

They didin't told me anything, and, in fact they were quicker than WP:ANI. Anyways ta-ta! kazekagetr 16:54, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

They didn't? Well, I suppose that when I return, I'll look through your edit history and see the cases you're referring to. If the admins incorrectly blocked someone at ANI, I will bring it up in the correct locations which may lead to the loss of adminship. Walter Görlitz (talk) 17:02, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

wow you arent a lazy fella walt, if you are that eager to strip someone from his/her adminship, please check my edit history. though i might be confusing aiv with ani but i really dont care bout it. here, my contributions. also, you canadian? ur name is very german. kazekagetr 17:54, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Sorry you can't remember where you made the edits. Since you're not sure, I'm not going to help you since two editors have told you that you were clearly wrong. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:59, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Helpm me on which issue? I didint requested your help, mate. kazekagetr 11:17, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

• What is this ridiculous nationalism going on here? I never thought Wikipedia was a nationalist playground, there is not one source in existence where Mesut Ozil has said he is a Kurd... Ozil has always maintained he is a Turk. The Diyarbakir claim is laughable on a number of levels.

1. Ozil has never claimed he is originally from Diyarbakir 2. People who migrate to different regions in the country usually move to big cities not tiny villages with no employment 3. There is no history of a historic migration from Diyarbakir to the region of Devrek 4. This is assuming everyone from Diyarbakir is Kurdish 5. This ignores the fact that Diyarbakir had a mixed Arab/Armenian/Assyrian/Turkmen/Kurd historic population. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.148.248.214 (talk) 13:53, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

I know, it's ridiculous. There's this guy, Walter Gorlitz, here who has this obsession with erasing any mention of Mesut's Turkish ethnic background. For years he was trying to remove Mesut's Turkish ethnic origin from the article and he is now trying to turn Turkish Mesut into a Kurd. (See link ---> https://instagram.com/p/qaWKtNwszY/?taken-by=m10_official <---- )

• The Diyarbakir ancestry section is a travesty on so many levels I do not understand how a source like Wikipedia claiming to be neutral can include it, so you have Mesut Ozil himself saying he is Turkish but still claiming he has Kurdish roots... if he had Kurdish roots I am sure he would say so but the village of Devrek does not originate from Diyarbakir and Diyarbakir is not exclusively Kurdish so the logic it is wrong however, you look at it. Fenerbahce president Aziz Yildirim is from Diyarbakir but Turkish why don't you claim he is Kurdish then as he is actually from Diyarbakir... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.134.44.48 (talk) 12:53, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes, it's ridiculous. There's this guy, Walter Gorlitz, here who has this obsession with erasing any mention of Mesut's Turkish ethnic background. For years he was trying to remove Mesut's Turkish ethnic origin from the article and now he is trying to turn Turkish Mesut into a Kurd. (See link ---> https://instagram.com/p/qaWKtNwszY/?taken-by=m10_official <---- )

I don't really understand why the Kurdish claim is in the article - the sources cited give no indication of where they get that information from. Ozil has made numerous comments about his Turkish ancestry and as far as I am aware never about being Kurd. The source of the Kurdish info is pretty weak in my opinion, and may well be incorrect. There appear to be a number of editors here that would agree with this, and only one insisting the slightly odd Kurdish claim is included. Atshal (talk) 23:58, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

It's ridiculous. There's this guy, Walter Gorlitz, here who has this obsession with erasing any mention of Mesut's Turkish ethnic background. For years he was trying to remove Mesut's Turkish ethnic origin from the article and he is now trying to turn Turkish Mesut into a Kurd. (See link ---> https://instagram.com/p/qaWKtNwszY/?taken-by=m10_official <---- )

Semi-protected edit request on 21 March 2015

There's this schizophrenic part of the article where it claims that Mesut Ozil, who is well-known to be ethnically Turkish (as verified by countless articles), is somehow "Kurdish": "However, there are sources that claim Özil's ancestors are ethnic Kurds from Diyarbakır."

This should be deleted.

I'm sorry but it is ludicrous and reflects poorly on Wikipedia. It especially looks strange when the article establishes, with verified sources, that Mesut is Turkish as verified by his own words, just before that. Just look at the man's instagram and what he posted the day Germany won the World Cup": https://instagram.com/p/qaWKtNwszY/?taken-by=m10_official

I've followed the subject closely for some time and ever since Mesut Ozil achieved the prominence he has there have been Kurdish nationalists trying to claim him for themselves (you can see their casual knowledge of football in how the second he becomes famous, they try to claim him for themselves; while the Turks have been following him since he was a youth player on Schalke (as we do all of our players, big or small). Basically, they will try to claim any Turk who is successful or has made a name for themselves outside of Turkey. That sort of nonsense shouldn't be allowed to creep into Wikipedia.

The assertion that he is "Kurdish" is the agenda of a user User:Walter Görlitz, who for years, as can been seen from his edit history, has been trying to remove mention Mesut Ozil's Turkish ethnic background (while curiously leaving them for other members of the German national team like ethnic-Polish Podolsi, etc) and having given up that, is trying to turn the Turkish Mesut Ozil into a Kurd. I guess he is unsettled by the idea that a person who is ethnically Turkish could be a mainstay on the Germany national football team. Whatever is up with him, I think you'll agree his racist hangups shouldn't cross over into Wikipedia.

What he offers as evidence is an unsourced blog entry from about.com where there is obvious copy-pasting from other sources and God-knows-where including the spelling errors the blog-writer forgot to correct :) -> "his similar characteristics to the Brazilian midfielder Diego who performed with extinction for the club before leaving for Juventus in 2009." Performed with "extinction"? I believe they meant "distinction" and this just shows the amateur level of this site which http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Walter_G%C3%B6rlitz is trying to offer as a source. In fact, I tried to contact the writer of the blog but he has not maintained his blog, Twitter, or facebook for months. This is obviously an unreliable amateur. On top of that, I don't know if you know anything about "about.com" but it's basically an ad/malware-ridden amateur wanna-be Wiki that literally has copy-pastes of information from other places including old inaccurate articles from Wikipedia.

Any google search will show you countless articles and sources indicating Mesut's Turkish origin and ethnic background including those sourced in this article. For example, here, he states "I will always be Turkish": http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2013/04/09/3886081/i-will-always-be-turkish-why-ozil-is-worshipped-in-istanbul

Furthermore, he is from Devrek, a small rural village in Zolguldak in NORTHWESTERN, Turkey and has been photographed and filmed visiting his grandmother and uncle who still live there. There are ZERO Kurds in Devrek, Zonguldak and to suggest there could be is an affront to logic. It's literally the one of the last places in Turkiye you would expect Kurds to be, the literal opposite of where they inhabit, and to suggest that Mesut, whose family has lived there for centuries, could be "Kurdish" is insane: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAf0eN13yoI and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devrek and http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Zonguldak_districts.png

To put such an contradictory statement as Mesut being "Kurdish" with no evidence in the same article makes no sense makes the article appear to be a battleground for feuding nationalists. Please help correct this by removing disproven contradictory information. Thank you. 173.54.212.213 (talk) 19:14, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

 Not done See above Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:41, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

And I have no agenda either. Only a reliable source. Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:43, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Reliable source? it is not a source, it is not a primary source, not a secondary source, it is simply not a source. I can write Mesut Özil has Portuguese ancestors, put it on the internet.... is that a source as well... there is absolutely no reference from any reputable site, from any interviews, from any interviews with his relatives with any interviews or studies in the rural town of Devrek that suggests that Özil originates from Diyarbakir. And just to further illustrate how ridiculous the argument is, I am from Diyarbakir but I am not a Kurd... your flawed logic that being from Diyarbakir makes you a Kurd is the stuff of romantic nationalists, Fenerbahce president Aziz Yildirim is from Diyarbakir and guess what he is not a Kurd either, Kevork Malikyan was born in Diyarbakir guess what he is not a Kurd, Gazi Yasargil also born in Diyarbakir and would you believe it he is not a Kurd... it is just like saying if somebody is born in Istanbul is automatically makes them a Turk... your logic is beyond ridiculous and actually hard to people still have such racist ideas. 109.148.253.190 (talk) 12:54, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

The reliability of about.com has been discussed before.

Your logic is flawed. Just because you are from Diyarbakir and not a Kurd does not mean that every inhabitant of Diyarbakir is not a Kurd. Let's assume that you're a male. Because you're from Diyarbakir and not a female does not mean that all inhabitants of Diyarbakir are not female. Walter Görlitz (talk) 13:51, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Your logic is flawed, you assume being from Diyarbakir makes you a Kurd, the whole premise of your wafer thin argument is a fictional migration tale. By your logic, you would try to argue that I am Kurdish just because my family are from Diyarbakir which would be wrong and nothing more than a stereotype. You claim that Mesut Ozil's family originate from Diyarbakir which is firstly a lie, there is not one shred of evidence in any first hand accounts from any member of Ozil's family or any demographic studies of the Hışıroğlu village that show that there is a single person that originates from Diyarbakir. Secondly you claim that he is a Kurd because a poorly written article by somebody on the internet says his family is from Diyarbakir which we know he is not. Mesut has himself said he is Turkish, everybody in his families village is Turkish, this kind of backwards nationalism destroys the purpose of Wikipedia. You are intentionally trying to mislead readers, on the one hand we have Mesut Ozil saying he is Turkish and you are trying to disprove Mesut himself with a poorly written article. 109.148.253.190 (talk) 17:12, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

You have attributed logic to me that is not my way of thinking.

I believe that a reliable source indicates that he has Kurdish heritage.

I also believe that a reliable source indicates that his relative are from Diyarbakir, or at least they have some association with that location.

I do not believe that all people from Diyarbakir are Kurds.

I do not believe that all Kurds are from Diyarbakir.

That someone can be a Kurd and can be from a location that is not in an area that is historically Kurdish is not a logical error.

That some person can be a Kurd and can be from Diyarbakir is not a logical error.

That Özil could be such a person is also not a logical error. Walter Görlitz (talk) 17:26, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

It seems to me that you are suggesting that someone could not hold Turkish citizenship--be Turkish--in the past and still be considered an ethnic Kurd.

It also seems to me that you are suggesting that no person who has ever been an ethic Kurd could ever hold Turkish citizenship.

Do I understand your position correctly? Walter Görlitz (talk) 17:57, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

The source is not reliable, there are no first hand sources, there are no sources used in the article as to where the author attained his information and I have requested that the author proves his claims so the central crux of your argument is about to get shattered. If that author changes the article in question your whole argument will crumble like a house of cards... what you are doing is a deliberate act of internet trolling.

Mesut Ozil's family are from Devrek in Zonguldak, you realise it is on the other side of the country from Diyarbakir, you realise he is from a rural village called Hışıroğlu.

There is a simple solution, bring one shred of evidence, one first hand source from Mesut Ozil or any of his relatives that state his family is from Diyarbakir and Kurdish. Just one would be sufficient.109.148.253.190 (talk) 11:48, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

The source has been questioned by several and found reliable.

You didn't respond to my question, in which I believe I addressed your misunderstanding. You can continue to question the reliability of the source, but you're wrong. You can continue to make extreme statements that have no bearing in fact, but they will be ignored. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:07, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

More proof that Mesut Özil is not Kurdish or from Diyarbakir - visiting Grandfathers tomb in the Hişiroğlu village of Devrek, Zonguldak, Turkey

Here is actual video football of Mesut Ozil visiting his grandfathers grave in the Hişiroğlu village of Devrek, Zonguldak, Turkey. In the graveyard are his forefathers before and all are from the Hişiroğlu village going back well over a century. Absolutely no reference to anybody being from Diyarbakir like the dubious source in the Mesut Ozil article suggests.

http://webtv.hurriyet.com.tr/spor/futbol/mesut-ozil-dedesinin-mezarini-ziyaret-etti_56516 109.148.253.190 (talk) 11:51, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Mesut Özil here saying he is proud to be the first Turk to play for Real Madrid

http://spor.milliyet.com.tr/mesut-un-ilk-turk-gururu/spor/spordetay/18.08.2010/1278074/default.htm 109.148.253.190 (talk) 12:00, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

My maternal grandfather is buried in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada.

My paternal grandfather is buried in Lima, Paraguay.

What are their ethnicities.

You still have not answered the question: can a Kurd also be a Turk? Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:07, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Comparing Apples and Oranges, Mesut Özil's family is from the Hişiroğlu village of Devrek, Zonguldak, Turkey. Unless you have a primary source or a genealogy stating that he is from Diyarbakir the central crux to your argument is obsolete. It is up to you to prove he is from wherever you believe he is from, otherwise we should also use a source saying Barack Obama is Turkish, there are sources and by your logic if somebody writes something on the internet it is true. By your logic we can write somebodies ancestors are from anywhere, write it on a blog or website and start claiming it is true.... this is not about you or me this is about Mesut Özil who has on countless occasions said he is Turkish but for some reason you have a hard time accepting it. It does not matter what you or I say at the end of the day when Mesut himself says he is a Turk. Does Mesut say he is a Turk? yes or no, it is a fairly simple question. 109.148.253.190 (talk) 22:50, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

We can easily clear this up, Mesut Özil himself tweeted at the time that he is not a Kurd - "Selamlar! Onlarca tweet gelmiş ve asılsız haberler çıkıyor. Ben Karadenizli bir Türk'üm ama anlamadığım Kürt olsam ne fark edecek" this translates to, "Greetings, there is a lot of misinformation, I am a Turk from the Black Sea but it would not change anything even if I was a Kurt" END OF STORY http://www.sporx.com/size-ne-hatta-sana-ne-SXHBQ209026SXQ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.148.253.190 (talk) 23:30, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Your grasp of logic is beyond appalling. He never says he isn't a Kurd, he says even if he was a Kurd. And I don't see his tweet, I see a Turkish sports blogger claiming something. Again, we're not comparing apples and oranges, we're comparing Germans, Turks and Kurds. Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:57, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

So when it suits you a blogger and any random internet source is fine but when it disproves your flimsy 'claims' it is just a sports blogger. Well guess what, that is a tweet and facebook comment Mesut Özil wrote at the time when people like yourself where making 'claims' that he was Kurdish. Mesut clearly denied 'claims' that he is Kurdish, clearly 'stated' he is a Turk from the Black Sea region of Turkey. Your assertion is a 'claim', the article is a farce, on the one hand you have Mesut 'stating' he is a Turk so what need is there for a 'claim' that he is Kurdish when clearly Mesut himself has already said he is Turkish. You seem to have a hard time accepting what Mesut himself has said, has Mesut said he is a Turk yes or no? has Mesut or any member of his family ever said they are Kurds? simple question really no need to go off on a tangent. 109.148.253.190 (talk) 12:23, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 June 2015

Please remove the phrase 'Özil has been dating singer Mandy Capristo since 2013.[118].' (located under his personal life section) This is because this information is now incorrect as he is no longer dating her since October 2014. Eleftheria172012 (talk) 16:52, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

References

Partly done: I've added to the text to indicate the relationship ended. —C.Fred (talk) 17:24, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 June 2015

Hi,

There are a two factual errors in the 2014 World Cup section: 1) He created 17 chances - not 15. Most on German team and tied-2nd overall. 2) Pass completion was 86.9% - not 78.6%.

Two things that should be added to 2014 World Cup section: 1) Ozil led the tournament in final-third passes completed (171). This is an important and impressive stat that highlights his quality. 2) He ranked 2nd overall for possesions won in final-third (6).

Source - http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/07/14/stats-things-mesut-ozil-did-better-than-anybody-else-at-world-cu/

Add to Individual awards: 1) Germany Player of the Year: 2011, 2012, 2013. This is a big award and Ozil himself has said that it's important to him. Source - http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/arsenal-playmaker-mesut-ozil-wins-germany-player-of-the-year-award-9047409.html

2) Champions League Most Assists (6): 2010-11 Source - http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2011/statistics/round=2000118/players/type=assists/index.html

3) Premier League Team of the Year: 2013-14 Source - http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/news/2013-14/may/team-of-the-season-2013-14-result.html

Thanks

Naughty-Dalmatians (talk) 03:09, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

ad 1) According to the source, he won the German national player of the year award, which must not be confused with the Footballer of the Year in Germany which is indeed a big award. The German national player of the year is not a big award, it gets mentioned in the news but no one really cares a lot. --Jaellee (talk) 09:18, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format.  ^B E _C K ^Y _S A ^{Y L} E _S  19:16, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Pronunciation of Özil

Surely 'Z' in German is pronounced 'TS', as in Mozart, Nazi, etc., so the pronunciation of Özil is shown incorrectly. Could it be corrected, please? Thanks. SP1R1TM4N (talk) 22:41, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

It's a Turkish name. Regards, Robby.is.on (talk) 22:45, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 February 2016

I have recognized that Mesut Ozil is completely described as a German. However, the correct description for him is a German-Turkish football player since he holds both of the countries' citizenship as well as to be born to Turkish parents and having a Turkish name. Could you please correct this?

 Not done - as the article already clearly states in the Personal life section "Özil is a third-generation Turkish-German," and lists 6 references - we cannot be much clearer than that - Arjayay (talk) 17:12, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

He no longer holds Turkish citizenship. He gave it up several years ago. Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:43, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Request for protection of Mesut Ozil page

Could someone help request this please? Plenty of vandalism on this page recently. And I'm not sure how to do that. Thanks in advance. Blckbrr7 (talk) 18:35, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

It would be done through Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. I'll let you make the request and if you can't do it, please comment here and I will make a request for you. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:09, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

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183 cm?? Are you kidding

He is 179-180 cm--85.54.207.240 (talk) 18:58, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Do you have any source for that? Qed237 (talk) 19:05, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Yesterdays's "Early life" revert

Hi everyone! Walter Görlitz suggested I bring the issue up here. Yesterday, he reverted this sourced addition – which I would assume was made in good faith, too. The explanation given by Walter Görlitz was "COmplete revert for the same reason as the previous versions". From the page history, it is not apparent what reason he is referring to. On his talk page, he suggests there are "plenty of discussions about why that crap is not appropriate". I have now read the talk page archives and from what I can tell, the discussions there are mostly about how to refer to Özil's nationality/ancestry in the article lead which seems like a different issue. I don't see how the additions are "crap", to me they appear both factually accurate and notable. Would somebody be able clarify/explain? Robby.is.on (talk) 10:36, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Yes. I'm sorry. There wasn't an earlier comment, but honestly, WP:OVERLINK is my primary issue, not discussion about ethnicity. However, the mention of Bosnians and Lebanese children is immaterial to who he is and should not be included, but discussing third-generation Turk in Germany is supported and I would be fine with that inclusion. Would like to hear what other editors think before restoring an edited version of that. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:48, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 September 2016

At the end of the introduction section add: "In 2015-16 Özil topped the English Premiere League and all top-flight European domestic leagues in assists with 19." cite: http://www.espnfc.com/english-premier-league/23/statistics/assists?season=2015

Hadi1337 (talk) 16:32, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

The text is essentially already present in the 2015-16 section. Search "That was Özil's 19th assist of the season in the league, a record only beaten by Thierry Henry with 20 in 2002-03 in Premier League history". Not done for now, but perhaps others can comment — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 23:52, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

 Not done per Andy M. Wang. Regards— MeowMoon (talk) 23:54, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Help request

We need to change German to Turkish because he is ethnically Turkish and so people don't get confused and offended — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dealinglad23 (talk • contribs) 12:43, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Born in Germany, playing for Germany, so how can it offend anyone to state that he is a German football player? Also his Turkish ancestry is well-sourced and fully mentioned in the appropriate section "Personal life". That's enough. --T*U (talk) 13:12, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Help request

He's mom and dad is ethnically Turkish he has nothing to do with German he was just born there.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Dealinglad23 (talk • contribs) 13:46, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

This is a talk page dialogue that doesn't require that volunteer helpers be pinged. Scottyoak2 (talk) 16:50, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Template removed. Your question was answered immediately above and you're not going to get a different answer regardless how many times you ask. Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:56, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Enzo Ferrarri's Doubleganger?

So, can we comment that he is considered to look like the twin of Enzo Ferrarri[the guy the Ferarri is named after]?

https://sanaakosirickylee.wordpress.com/2016/06/09/the-case-of-the-eerie-resemblance-of-enzo-ferrari-and-mesut-ozil-is-this-a-case-of-reincarnation/ Kairos (talk) 14:59, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 April 2017

Sasansasan10 (talk) 10:39, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Stickee (talk) 11:31, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Critiquing Ozil Article

1) In all campaigns in the 2015/16 season, Ozil had 21 assists, not 20. The extra assist came from a World Cup Qualifying game for Germany.

Lee, F. D., Karen, M., Dove, E., Adams, T., & Ogden, M. (n.d.). Mesut Özil. Retrieved April 18, 2017, from http://www.espnfc.us/player/84775/mesut-ozil?season=2015

2) As the 2016/17 English Premier League is coming to a close, adding in notable moments of the season could be a good idea, ie. Nominated for German player of the year in 2017.

Mesut Ozil: Arsenal midfielder wins Germany's Player of the Year for fifth time - BBC Sport. (n.d.). Retrieved April 18, 2017, from http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/38630795

RavenLunatic13 (talk) 00:25, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

References

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Semi-protected edit request on 29 May 2017

Please could someone add Turkish born German not just German. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jamesgolding (talk • contribs) 13:33, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — IVORK _Discuss 14:20, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 May 2017

Please could someone add Turkish born German not just German

Sources:

• https://www.biography.com/people/mesut-%C3%96zil-21342499
• http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2013/04/09/3886081/i-will-always-be-turkish-why-ozil-is-worshipped-in-istanbul
• http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4259476/Arsenal-star-Mesut-Ozil-embraces-heritage-Kebab-house.html

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.24.81.82 (talk) 14:37, 29 May 2017‎ (UTC)

Not done: His grandfather was Turkish, but his father was born in Germany. While he has Turkish ancestry, it is not important enough to include in the lead. Additionally, it is already well-covered in Mesut Özil#Personal life. Primefac (talk) 14:44, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

help

He is Turkish.

http://ethnicelebs.com/mesut-ozil — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.24.81.82 (talk) 15:03, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

He is and it is discussed in the article, but not the lede. And that source is not reliable. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:11, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 May 2017

Mesut özil speaks fluent Turkish and his name is Turkish. if you read carefully his mother and father immigrated to Germany they are not German.

His mother Gülizar and Mustafa özil does that sound German to you ?

Source:

• http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2013/04/09/3886081/i-will-always-be-turkish-why-ozil-is-worshipped-in-istanbul
• https://mobile.twitter.com/ffarsenal/status/424673459474407425?lang=en
• https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/nov/15/mesut-ozil-turkish-german-football

He said I will always be Turkish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.24.81.82 (talk • contribs)

Not done Please do not open new requests all the time, instead continue on those you started. Regarding your request, the sources clearly says he was born in Gelsenkirschen so he is not "Turkish born" and his ancestry is covered in other sections and is not notable for the lead. Qed237 (talk) 15:01, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

I am Canadian, but my name is German. Go figure. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:12, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

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