Talk:Mega-CD/Archive 1

article name (2003 discussion)

Restoring to more popular name:

"Sega Mega-CD" [1] 2,660 hits

"Sega CD" [2] 148,000

- M123 05:25, 19 Aug 2003 (UTC)

---

This article has been merged with the Sega Mega-CD wiki

- thewikipedian 19:43, 17 May2004 (UTC+1)

Mega CD

Shouldn't this be at MEGA CD and not Sega CD? The standard convention for wikipedia is to go with the spelling/naming of whatever the article is about- in this case the Mega CD was the name in Japan which is where its from. Also the Mega CD was the name in Europe and elsewhere in the world so more people know it.--Josquius 11:52, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Maybe. :) Actually the japanese/european/elsewhere name is "Mega-CD" (lower cases and hyphen), the North American name "Sega CD" is correct. Maybe the current situation (Sega CD = article, Sega Mega-CD = redirect) should spin to Sega CD = redirect, Sega Mega-CD = article. --32X 00:19, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Yup, that's what I was trying to say (and I guess I failed...) --Josquius 17:47, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Who slashed/ this article? It should have one name. Since the majority of English readers that read this article are American, I think it should be mved back to sega CD (im doing so now cause im bold.) -- Chris ^Ccool2ax _contrib. 23:46, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I moved it so quickly partially becuase slashes represent subpages, and this is not a subpage. -- Chris ^Ccool2ax _contrib. 23:49, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Slashes don't represent Subpages everytime. Example: OS/2 is not a subpage of OS. --32X 20:55, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Excuse me The English Wiki Is international not American, the Article should be Sega Mega Cd not Sega Cd, which should be a redirect. Owwmykneecap 20:21, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

We invented wikipedia, so thats the way it is my friend. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.149.100.20 (talk • contribs).

A real picture is needed

Shouldn't we have a real picture of the Mega/Sega CD instead of the JVC Wondermega? Or else you'll confuse a lot of people. --Plainnym 13:32, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was No consensus. I don't see the consensus that is advertised on WP:RM. If anything, it's leaning slightly towards supporting the original move request - but definitely no consensus.

Requested Move

In April User:KAMiKAZOW has moved Sega CD to Sega Mega-CD/Sega CD (diff), following the naming convention discussed before for Sega Mega Drive/Sega Genesis (reason). While the Mega Drive/Genesis article is pretty stable and all are more or less fine with the name, User:Chris is me has moved it back without further discussion ("cause im bold") (diff). I've later said that slashes don't represent sub pages by default (diff), User:Seldane was even trying to "move" the article back (diff). After a rev I've tried to move it by myself but failed (name already existed, bla). That's the reason why Sega Mega-CD/Sega CD became Sega Mega-CD and Sega CD.

I'm now going to request a move from Sega CD to Sega Mega-CD/Sega CD, to follow once again the naming convention of Sega Mega Drive/Sega Genesis. Another important reason for my request is User:Chris is me's reason: "Since the majority of English readers that read this article are American". Using a domestic name is quite ok for any WP, using it in the "international" WP when the original name (used on every other market) is different to the North American one then it's quite POV. I use en.WP quite often as a second source to see what other people write who don't speak my mothers language and I'm not the only one who does so.

Feel free to participate in the discussion so we can base it on a consensus.

--32X 13:10, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Short summary of the requested move

Sega CD → Sega Mega-CD/Sega CD … Rationale: When the article was moved to Sega Mega-CD/Sega CD for the first time, it was to follow the naming convention of its "mother console", the Sega Mega Drive/Sega Genesis. Later it was moved to Sega CD with

• slashes represent subpages and
• Since the majority of English readers that read this article are American, I think it should be moved back to sega CD

as reasons without further discussion. Some users don't agree on that move.

Survey

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

• Support As the requester I obviously support my own request. --32X 13:31, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
• Support as something that makes sense to do. SchuminWeb (Talk) 20:40, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
• Support. Crumbsucker 03:45, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
• Support krebbe 23:33, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
• Support It has two valid names, both should be in the title(although I also agree with 32X's redirect proposal) X201 12:54, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

After reading up on the naming policy and looking at other entries it's obvious that slashed names are frowned upon and are not policy (I was supporting both just to put an end to the swop, swop, swop of the title). My view now is that the article should be Mega CD with a redirect from Sega CD (My reason for this is in the discussion below X201 13:59, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

• Support It personally doesn't bother me, but as the Mega Drive/Genesis is titled the same way, I'll support this for consistency's sake. Hbdragon88 03:47, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
• Somewhat Support It is the standard set by the mega drive article however I believed it should use the standard name, not the American one. If its a choice between regular/American and just American though then I guess I will support -Josquius
• Oppose As I prefer shorter names for articles, and I've never heard of "hybred names"... now, that's not to say that first few words of the lead-in shouldn't say both, but let's not make it unnessecarly difficult to directly link to (or directly access, for the reader). --Aknorals 13:42, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Object - use redirects per policy It breaks Wikipedia naming conventions, which is considered policy. Slashes are only to be used as part of the title, such as is the case with OS/2. Combining two names as a single title, (such as renaming to Sega (Mega) CD, Sega Mega-CD (Sega CD), Sega CD (Sega Mega CD), etc.,) wouldn't work because of exactly the same reasons that colour and color do not redirect to colo(u)r. (See also: WP:NCON) I therefore suggest a somewhat more technical description: Sega CD console, Sega (CD console), or CD console (Sega). --DavidHOzAu 04:34, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

  Move to Mega CD per X201 below. --DavidHOzAu 12:41, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

• Oppose, see my comments below. I would be open to either name, whichever might be more appropriate, but a title with both together with a slash is not, and the Sega Genesis page should be corrected as well. —Centrx→talk • 03:12, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• Comment per WP:PAG with respect to WP:CONSENSUS and WP:NOT, the support votes are losing soundly in the discussion below. --DavidHOzAu 12:50, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

• The article should totally be Mega-CD as that's the official name of the original console. Sega CD? Allow me to laugh.
• This is highly non-standard. Wikipedia article titles give a single common name, not a hybrid. "Sega Mega-CD/Sega CD" is not its official name and it is not the name people use for it. These are not precise analogies, but we don't title the Wii article "Nintendo Revolution/Nintendo Wii" or "United States of America/USA". Different names are presented in the article, not stuffed into the title. The article should be titled "Sega Mega-CD" or "Sega CD", but not both. The Genesis article should also be changed. See also Wikipedia:Naming conventions. —Centrx→talk • 02:47, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Sigh...there was a major war over this very precise issue. See Talk:Sega Mega Drive for all the gory details that involved liberal use of the "Google test" among other issues. The problem here is that "Mega Drive" was used in internationally, while the "Genesis" was used just in the USA. Nobody could come to a consensus on either title. It's lke the gasoline-petrol war, so the hybird name was adopted for it. If you feel really strongly about it...I don't know, should we take it to WP:VP or something? Or file a WP:RFC? Because if the hybrid is ever gonig to be removed, it needs to have much wider involvement than just hte video games circle. Hbdragon88 07:38, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
    • There are two possible avenues of decision. First, what will be the most common name used by readers of the English Wikipedia? If sales in the U.S. and Canada are double sales in the UK and Australia, that is a good indication. Second, because this is somewhat like the situations for American vs. British spellings, and in general for any sort of equivocal dispute where the article is not specific to a particular region (e.g. New York City), the earliest usage prevails. The Sega CD and Sega Genesis articles were both originally created in 2001, whereas the other articles were created a full two years later. —Centrx→talk • 20:33, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

As said before, this is not USA+CA vs. UK+AUS. The English Wikipedia has its readers world wide. About half a billion people speak English as first or second language plus many more who understand it. As long as the western world doesn't speak Mandarin the English Wikipedia will be the international Wikipedia. "the earliest usage prevails" is a quite bad argument, since the WP was started in the US while the console development (and its initial marketing) was done in Japan. And still, there's no consensus in sight. :( --32X 10:54, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

all these above points are of no importance. The Machine is internationally known as the Sega Mega Drive. In Asia Europe Africa Austrailia South And Central America. Only ion USA is it called Genesis. There is no Argument it Should be Sega Mega Drive And the Sgea Cd article should be Sega Mega Cd for the same reasons.Owwmykneecap 20:39, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

How many "Sega Mega Drives" are there in comparison to units labeled "Sega Genesis"? —Centrx→talk • 21:03, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

• • it doesnt matter but logic would point out a lot more...86.42.138.22 00:38, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
    • The sales figures in the article combined with the huge video gaming market in North America would indicate otherwise. —Centrx→talk • 04:23, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't believe these numbers. The source of 35 million units (Mega Drive/Genesis) comes from an unofficial FAQ, the number of 6 million CD drives (hah!) is mentioned there without any source. In a book about video game consoles I've found 30 million consoles, making a market of 15 million Mega Drives, 15 million Genesis (Gensii, Genesisses?). The same book mentiones 2 million CD drives world wide. While 35 and 30 million don't differ that much, the 6 vs. 2 million is a quite big difference. I wouldn't trust any of these sources, they can only give an indefinite impression about how many units were sold. (The book mentiones the Amstrad Mega PC as "it is said to exist".) I guess only Sega could give reliable numbers. --32X 10:54, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

As stated above, a technical description of the product (as a compact-disc console) would solve the naming issue. --DavidHOzAu 04:38, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't think so, it would confuse the reader much more. Sadly. --32X 10:54, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

What I mean is have both Sega CD and Mega CD redirect to some other name. (The idea is that if neither A nor B is correct, then options C and D must be looked at.) Whatever the case, the final name should not have a slash. --DavidHOzAu 12:06, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Note see response below. --DavidHOzAu 12:38, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Snickers, Starburst, Oil of Olay, Cif. All of those had different names in different parts of The World. They started out with their original names but the names were changed to make the product appeal to a particular market where the original name was thought to be vague or unsuitable. In the last 10-15 years having separate marketing for separate markets became a burden and the product names were changed so that they were the same in all teritories. The product in question here was first launched as the Mega CD and was know in all World teritories as Mega CD, it only had it's name changed for the US market. I think the title should be Mega CD (with redirects from Sega CD) because the rename for the US is a part of the Mega CD's history, the rebranding happened to the Mega CD not to the Sega CD. - X201 09:47, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

totally agree with that statement. Owwmykneecap 17:46, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Me too. Something that is particularly true because the mega drive (not the mega cd though) is still made and sold in Brazil under that name. The issue about English being spoken by so many more people then natives is the big factor here I think, something that many linguisticly-nationalistic Americans seem to forget as it goes against their side. ,--Josquius 20:15, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Suggest speedy move to Mega CD What X201 said makes perfect sense. I'm willing to go with "Mega CD" per WP:CONSENSUS rather than the straw poll. --DavidHOzAu 12:38, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

The "Mega CD" is actually written with a dash, so "Mega-CD" is the correct name. Besides that I fear this solution wouldn't give an end to edit/move wars. --32X 15:33, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

well if that is correct that is what it shou8ld be...thats the point of the site man correct information. it may not stop the edit wars but thats not the point. Owwmykneecap 15:50, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Move to Mega Cd with a redirect on Sega Cd. A poll would be pointless, as in whatever result it drew does not change what the article should be titledOwwmykneecap 14:31, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Can someone do it then? I tried and can't. I don't want to just do it manually by copy and pasting all the code. --Josquius 20:21, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I have edited the entry at Wikipedia:Requested moves to indicate that the move is obstructed and needs administrator attention. All we can do now is wait. --DavidHOzAu 23:45, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

yeah i had tried to do it the other day but couldn'tOwwmykneecap 16:07, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Should it not be Sega Mega-CD?--Josquius 19:57, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

It dosen't happen on other articles, going back to my chocolate bar analogy, should the Snickers entry be Mars Inc. Snickers and the Mars Bar entry be Mars Inc. Mars bar? - X201 20:55, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Thunderhawk

If anyone has anything to add to the Thunderhawk game page it would be greatly appreciated. A visit by the formating fairy would be helpful as well. Thanks X201 13:40, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

So no move...

But if there was no concencus and it stays here then that is just as good as there having been agreement and Sega CD winning. Would it not be better to move it to where the majority wants it (mega cd) and continue the discussion there?--Josquius 11:31, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

That's not where the majority wanted to move it. The majority wanted to move it to Sega Mega-CD/Sega CD - the original move request - but not enough of a majority to imply consensus in my opinion. The followup ideas of moving to Mega-CD or Mega CD or Sega Mega-CD had more vocal support - one user even claiming consensus - but there were still fewer users voting for that. You all need to decide what to move it to before going to WP:RM. —Wknight94 (talk) 12:05, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

there was consensus but no one could move it. anyay that is not needed, no vote is required, it should me mega cd not sega cd for the reasons above....a vote on this is nothing but a pointless popularity contest. the name of the machine was the Sega Mega CD, which was changed only for the us market Owwmykneecap 21:13, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Just because you and two or three others favored that name does not make it consensus when four or five others favored the original request and never switched to the one you like. —Wknight94 (talk) 21:33, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

It doesnt matter if anyone likes it....Owwmykneecap 15:38, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

...it only matters that its right. I'm for the switch. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 144.138.89.82 (talk • contribs) .

exactlyOwwmykneecap 16:26, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Same here. --DavidHOzAu 12:56, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Since people use the wrong international name again, I just want to remember you: Sega Mega-CD or Mega-CD are correct names, Sega Mega CD and Mega CD are common mistakes. The dash is part of the name. --32X 14:17, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, "Mega-" was dropped in America to form the alternative name, "Sega CD". --DavidHOzAu 04:28, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Can someone who knows how add a new move thingy on the page then? With the fixing of the Mega Drive page it seems clear what should be done here...--Josquius 12:47, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

WP:RM seems like the most appropriate course of action. Dancter 13:41, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

To match the Sega Mega Drive title, the proposed new title page will need to be Sega Mega-CD - X201 14:16, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Citations

I've removed the 100,000 first year Japanese sales stat, and replaced it with a 2 years+ sales stat that I've got a source for. I think it also helps to get across the reason for the Mega-CD's failure. X201 21:42, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I have moved the page to the correct title

it's doneOwwmykneecap 15:26, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

The title was changed in order to fall into line with the name change at Sega Mega Drive. I've fixed the redirects for Sega-CD Mega-CD and all variations thereof and Wondermega as well. There were seven in total, if anyone knows of any others please fix them or drop a note here, thanks - X201 17:40, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

It should be Mega-CD as that's the original name of the product. Good work. --Seldane 14:41, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Article Rewrite

I almost entirely rewrote the article to better suit Wikipedia's formal tone. It was badly written before and took the view of an individual person's opinions and feelings. I also added in information about the CD Backup RAM Cart and Night Trap.

Can we get a reviewer to check out the revised article and possibly remove the "cleanup is needed" box if they warrant it?

Draknfyre 22:47, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

The paragraph was already deleted, I just want to state that the Mega-CD/Sega CD was not planned for the Neptune. At least in no version I know. On the other side I don't even know whether the expansion port was still there. --32X 15:51, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

By "that paragraph" do you mean the "cleanup is requested box" that I mentioned? If so the "this article is not written in the formal tone expected of a Wikipedia article" box is still there, that is the one I was referring to. As far as the Sega Neptune goes, it was supposed to be a separate system that combined the original Genesis/Mega Drive, 32X, and Sega CD/Mega-CD into one unit, capable of running the games of all three systems, at least as far as every article I read about it said.

Draknfyre 00:51, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

By paragraph I usually mean something like <p> blah </p> in standard html. In this case I meant the paragraph covering the Sega Neptune. If you look at the picture you'll maybe spot that there's no CD drive at all. For the article tags: I've removed the {formaltone} sine the article is quite good. I'd like to see another heading after the introduction so that the table of contents move to a higher position. --32X 08:40, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

What the ...?!?

Yesterday:

The Sega Mega-CD (メガCD, mega CD) was an add-on device for the Sega Mega Drive released in Europe, Australia, New Zealand and Japan. The North American version was called the Sega CD.

Today: TJ Spyke moved Sega Mega-CD to Sega CD: The article was moved despite their being no consensus

The Sega CD/Mega-CD (メガCD, mega CD) was an add-on device for the Mega Drive/Genesis released in Europe, Australia, New Zealand and Japan. The North American version was called the Sega CD.

O.k., the name of the Genesis was missing in the introduction of yesterday, but when I see today's version I'd like to puke. I haven't contributed that much to the article, but I never have tried to make it worse. Since the move made it necessary again to rewrite many parts, it would be nice if someone would start a poll to see which article name people prefer - an why. With the request for a move I've done it the last time and I'm pretty tired of arguing and arguing, trying to find a solution which works for almost everybody and then seeing the article moved again only a couple of months later. Plus: The Sega 32X article became worse, too. :( --32X 02:02, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

There was a full debate on the naming system for Sega Mega Drive. It was decided that the Mega Drive name was the original name and the name that the console was known by to more people. The renaming to Genesis was something that happened to the Mega Drive, not the other way around. The rename is a part of the Mega Drive's history, not the other way. Sega-CD was changed to Mega-CD to fall in line with the naming system for the Mega Drive and because having slashes in non-sub-pages is wrong. - X201 09:28, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

So went back again. The question is, how long will it remain this time? Maybe we should really have some kind of a poll to see how many people prefer which term (and why). --32X 01:35, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm all for a poll. I don't know why the page was move to where it currently is at (and then edited the redirect page, thus making it impossible for non-admins to move it back0), the move request failed and so moving it from Sega CD to Sega Mega-CD is vandalism. TJ Spyke 02:59, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

The move request was done because of another move without discussion. His only contributions to the article were the move and a small change in the infobox directly afterwards. The original move in April was done because both articles were joined. Some copy-paste moves where done before, the first one in August 2003. I guess, no move was based on a real consensus, but some where necessary to stop contra-productive work. --32X 09:26, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I reverted to Sega Mega-CD, reason being is that it was called that in the nations listed in the beginning of the article, and it goes on to say that it was called Sega CD in North America in the same paragraph. JONJONAUG 13:52, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Mega-CD is the popular term, WP:NC applies here. Combination 18:47, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Sources

A fair amount of the info from this article is derived from an old text file with the title "Sega CD FAQ" (a copy can be found at http://www.classicgaming.com/museum/faqs/segacdfaq.shtml). In fact a large portion of the original article was copied almost verbatim from this document. Unfortunately the "Sega CD FAQ" contains some dubious and difficult to verify statements and some that are false outright and unfortunately a number of these have made their way into the Wikipedia article. For instance, the FAQ and this article suggest that the Turbo-grafx 16 CD was the sole unit the Mega CD was designed to compete with; however, the Sega CD contains both a chip capable of sprite and background rotation and scaling and an 8-channel PCM chip which would seem to be a clear attempt to counter some of the SNES's hardware advantages. Some of the technical specs from the FAQ are misleading or plain wrong. The Sega CD used standard 650MB CD-ROM. The video storage capacities don't make any sense (only 45 minutes of 1/4 screen color video? Since the Sega CD has a 1X CD-ROM drive it would take over an hour just to read a video file that took up the entire disc and it doesn't have enough memory for any substantial buffering). The way the sound specs are written is deceptive. The Sega CD PCM chip is an 8-bit part, it's the DAC for CDDA that's 16-bit. There's a piece of text that says the Sega CD "adds 10 extra channels" but fails to mention that 2 of these channels are just for CD audio.

Because of these inaccuracies in the source (and there are probably others I've missed) it would probably be wise to either remove or rewrite (using better sources of course) the portions derived from the FAQ rather than just citing that FAQ as the source. The SegaBase article listed in references is probably a better source than the FAQ, but it includes at least some of the same errors mentioned above so use caution when using it as a source.

Mask of Destiny 03:15, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Colors

While I'm glad someone finally removed that reference to HAM some errors remain. The Genesis hardware normally supports only 61 onscreen colors not 64. There are four 16 color palletes; however, the first entry in each pallette is normally used as the transparent color giving you 4x15 = 60 colors onscreen. The backdrop can be set to any color in the pallette including the normally transparent colors giving you a total of 61.

As to whether any Sega CD games used more than 61 onscreen colors the answer is probably yes. While it's true that the two techniques for getting more onscreen colors are somewhat awkward to use for many games some Genesis games did use them and it stands to reason that Sega CD games would as well. Using raster effects for up to 512 onscreen colors (available pallette doesn't change) is quite doable in fighting games. I had it working on the port of SuperFighter I was working on a while back (I never got very far with the port, but I had the backgrounds running with raster effects for more colors with a working sprite engine on top of it). It's even easier to do for video as you don't have any sprites and you generally don't reuse tiles. I couldn't say with any certainty which titles display more than 61 colors (except for Sonic CD which uses raster effects in a limited way for its water effect) without a fair amount of work. It seems the current article overly discounts the idea given how easy (relatively speaking of course) it is to use these kinds of tricks for video and how many FMV titles there were for the system.

Mask of Destiny 03:15, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Release date in Japan

The Sega Mega-CD article says "The Sega Mega-CD was released first in Japan in 1st December 1991.". In the japanese article , it says 12/12/1991. And in the japanese list of Sega Mega Drive games, the launch titles are at the same date. Who is right ? PV250X 18:06, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

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