Talk:Media coverage of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict/Archive 6

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Archive 6

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Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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MIT study finds large evidence of pro-Israel bias in the NYT

Latest comment: 11 months ago6 comments4 people in discussion

http://web.mit.edu/hjackson/www/The_NYT_Distorts_the_Palestinian_Struggle.pdf -- Peleio Aquiles (talk) 05:12, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Sorry for delay -- it took me a while to download the file, and it wasn't compatible with the first PDF reader I tried. I don't really find the paper to be too impressive. In the very first sentence of the abstract, the phrase "bias against Palestine" has little meaning in the context in which it is used. And the overall basic approach is rather simplistic: 1) More Arabs died than Israelis died, so the Israelis are necessarily worse. 2) Therefore if the Israelis do not come out worse in the automated rhetorical tone analysis, then the source text being analyzed is ipso facto automatically biased. There are several possible logical gaps in this method of argumentation. I don't think we should use this paper to add a statement to any Wikipedia article saying "The New York Times is a biased newspaper" or similar. AnonMoos (talk) 09:21, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

I don't think you read the report deeply. The authors conduct different types of analysis. One is to look at the use of use of biased words – specifically words denoting violence committed – and to measure how the NYT and other media used it in respect to the different sides.

The other half was to look at the linguistic constructs, specifically the use of the passive voice. Palestinians were referred to with the passive voice twice as often as were Israelis. The report then uses specific examples to show how the reporting is biased. Mcdruid (talk) 03:59, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

The only valid objection to its use is that this is a preprint. Once it is accepted by the Journal of Palestine Studies, and details of the forthcoming issue where it will appear become available, then it will certainly be concluded. Studies going back to the late 1990s have invariably concluded that the NYTs is markedly biased on this topic, so the conclusion itself is not new. But the sheer scope of her analysis in covering language use in over 33.000 articles marks a qualitative leap.Nishidani (talk) 10:41, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Holly M. Jackson, 'The New York Times distorts the Palestinian Struggle: A Case Study of Anti-Palestinian Bias in American News Coverage of the First and Second Palestinian Intifadas,' Journal of Palestine Studies 2021/2022? (issue? volume? pages ?Nishidani (talk) 10:44, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Now in this publication outlet: Holly M Jackson, [DOI: 10.1177/17506352231178148 The New York Times distorts the Palestinian struggle: A case study of anti-Palestinian bias in US news coverage of the First and Second Palestinian Intifadas] Media, War & Conflict 6 June 2023 Nishidani (talk) 21:11, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

CAMERA EDUCATION INSTITUTE

Latest comment: 7 months ago2 comments2 people in discussion

While CAMERA states that its aim is: "Fighting Antisemitism and Anti-Israel Bias in Education", there is a danger that its' output could be considered as Pro-Israel Bias. Given this, might not CAMERA be highlighted as a one-sided lobby group? (Updated) -- Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.166.136 (talk) 08:16, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

It is not a media organization, and its employees are not journalists. It's a watchdog and advocacy group, which is a rather different thing. AnonMoos (talk) 15:25, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

Honestreporting

Latest comment: 6 months ago2 comments2 people in discussion

This article has 17 citations to Honestreporting, which is ridiculous overciting of a highly partisan activist organization. Zero^talk 03:42, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

working on it, same for CAMERA. nableezy - 21:02, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

garbage sources

Latest comment: 6 months ago11 comments3 people in discussion

I cleared out some of the unreliable sources that have bloated this article, more work needed. nableezy - 21:01, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Um, the Weekly Standard is reliable but despite the claims by Alaexis that was a commentary piece by Ariel Cohen of The Heritage Foundation, who was Senior Research Fellow in Russian and Eurasian Studies and International Energy Policy at The Heritage Foundation. Not any expertise in the Arab-Israeli conflict or Jenin or media. So it was not a reliable source. Alaexis, why did you return CAMERA and Honest Reporting as well? nableezy - 21:14, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Why is CAMERA an unreliable source? They are biased for sure but it doesn't make them unreliable. Alaexis_¿question? 08:59, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Because they have a documented history of underhanded and dishonest reporting and tactics? Why is it a reliable source? Since you have failed to answer any of my questions, and instead chose to turn the burden of demonstrating reliability to me to demonstrate unreliability I am going to again remove these garbage sources. nableezy - 21:46, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Actually, somebody already did. Ill continue looking to improve this article through removing the crap that it is filled with. nableezy - 21:47, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

So is it your personal opinion that "they have a documented history of underhanded and dishonest reporting and tactics"? Also, I don't see who did "it." Alaexis_¿question? 21:53, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Zero0000 reverted your blanket revert. I’m not going to keep playing this game with you where you bring some garbage website with no qualifications and then say oh why’s it not a reliable source. What in WP:RS does CAMERA or Honest Repoeting qualify for? They aren’t a news organization, they aren’t scholarship, they aren’t a news aggregator. What about them qualifies as a reliable source. I don’t plan to play along with this game anymore though, sorry. Not every bullshit organization with a .com or .org is a reliable source. nableezy - 02:46, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

CAMERA and Honest Reporting are not reliable sources that just happen to be biased. They are organisations that exist solely for the purpose of pro-Israel propaganda. Their claims might in some cases be citable with attribution when they themselves are involved in a controversy, but as sources of fact or expert opinion they are well below the bar. Zero^talk 02:58, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

I only see your personal opinions here and IDONTLIKEIT is not a valid reason for removing content.

WP:RS does not contain an exhaustive list of all possible types of allowed sources (the section is called Some types of sources). If these sources are so bad then you should have no difficulties finding confirmations. Alaexis_¿question? 09:30, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, but exclusion of material on the basis of the source being unreliable is entirely different from excluding it on the basis of not liking it. As for opinions, why is your opinion that they are reliable superior to my opinion that they are not reliable? There is no principle of reliable-until-proven-otherwise. There is a principle of ONUS, though, giving you the obligation to obtain consensus for this disputed material. Zero^talk 09:54, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

And I only see your personal opinion that whatever website you can find on google is a reliable source. These arent, and you are free to ask RSN for their opinion if you like. nableezy - 20:48, 30 November 2023 (UTC)