Talk:Mary Myers/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Alanna the Brave (talk · contribs) 19:39, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Hello! I'll be reviewing your article. Comments to come over the next few days. All the best, Alanna the Brave (talk) 19:39, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

All right -- I enjoyed reading this article (what a cool person!), and I think it's close to meeting GA standards. I'm not seeing any copyvio issues (scanned it with Earwig's Copyvio tool and spot-checked some old articles via Newspapers.com). However, there are a few more tweaks and polishes needed for some of the text, formatting and sourcing. I've detailed my comments below, and after these items have been addressed I'll do another quick readthrough to see if there's anything else to tackle. Let me know if you have any questions. Alanna the Brave (talk) 00:00, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

•  Working --Doug Coldwell (talk)

Infobox

• Is August 1st really the date of Myers' birth and death? If it's not confirmed, we should leave the dates with years only.

•  Done

• There are a few items missing: birth name, full place of birth & death (state/country), and spouse.

•  Done

• Her "occupation" needs expanding: she was also an inventor and businesswoman, correct?

•  Done

Lead

• Myers' aliases should be simplified here. I think these three will do: Mary Myers, Mary Breed Hawley (maiden name), and Carlotta the Lady Aeronaut. No need to include every variation.

•  Done

Early life and characteristics

• I think the "characteristics" (blonde hair) are unnecessary for this section and can be removed. Other sections already describe her character in a much more interesting way (through actions, anecdotes, etc).

•  Done

Mid life and career

• No need for a "Main article: Carl Meyers" tag in this section -- Carl is already linked in the main text, and we don't want to suggest Mary Myers' life story is merely a fragment of Carl's story.

•  Done

• The first paragraph here details the Myers' marriage and Carl's background. I would suggest moving it to the 'Early life' section (as personal background information), so that this 'Career' section can stay focused on Myers' professional activities.

•  Done

Aeronaut

• This section should be reformatted as a sub-section of "Career".

•  Done

• Clarification needed: was "the first flight that Myers completed" an entirely solo flight, or did she have a co-pilot?

•  Done

Balloon farm and business

• This section should be reformatted as a sub-section of "Career".

•  Done

• When did the Myers set up the balloon farm? The date should appear early on in the first paragraph.

•  Done

• The phrase "farm mansion shop facilities" feels too packed full of nouns. Can any of these words be deleted to simplify?

•  Done

• Did Myers' have a parachute for these high altitude jumps??

•  Done

Patents

• Clarification needed: to what extent did Myers' "contribute" to Carl's inventions? This first sentence makes it sound like she was only ever an assistant, but later paragraphs suggest she created and patented some of her own inventions too.

 Done

• The details of these inventions are interesting, but I'm wondering: did they have any kind of broader impact on aeronautic equipment development? Did they work well? Did others actually purchase them?

 Done

• Clarification needed: how is a "5-foot-hoop" similar to "a lady's fan"? Finding this hard to picture.

 Done

• Too much repetition of comparing the hoop to a boat's rudder (2nd and 4th sentence in this last paragraph).

 Done

Records

• "first woman of the United States to fly and pilot her own aircraft": unless I'm misreading this claim, I suspect it isn't true. Madame Johnson [1] and Mrs. Jane Warren [2] are both reported as having piloted their own balloons in the U.S. before Mary Myers.

•  Done Provided links. The key words I believe are "her own aircraft" as something she constructed. The two you mention were in balloons built by others.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 09:32, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Hmm... I see where you're coming from. I'm not sure I'm convinced that these sources are saying she's the first American woman to CONSTRUCT and pilot her aircraft ("her own aircraft" feels too vague for that), but I could believe that they mean Myers OWNED and piloted her aircraft. That could believably put her ahead of Johnson and Warren. I'll let this stand. Alanna the Brave (talk) 18:03, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• "highest number of one-woman piloted balloon trips ever done in the 19th century": intriguing claim, but I notice that there's only one source backing this up. Can you find the stats for her number of balloon trips, and do any other sources agree with this record?

•  Done

• "more balloon flights than any man in America": also intriguing, but it looks like both sources are ultimately attributing the claim to Carl Myers in 1891. I'm not sure we can trust Carl's judgement alone -- are there any other sources for this?

•  Done

Your new source still attributes the claim to Carl. :-) However, I think we can make this claim work as long as the origin is made clear (I've edited the sentence accordingly). Alanna the Brave (talk) 18:03, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Later years

• Did Myers retire from ALL business in 1891, or just from piloting balloons?

•  Done

• The appearance of the Myers' daughter is rather sudden here. I think the fact that they had a child should have been mentioned earlier on (Early life?).

•  Done

Notes re: citations/sources

• Most sources seem of good quality, but I'm not sure about D'Imperio, as iUniverse looks like a self publishing company.

 Done

• The "Scientific American" source is missing some bibliographic info: title of article/letter within Scientific American, letter author, vol #. Also: can you double-check that this citation is placed correctly within the "Balloon farm" section? The source seems to be discussing rain/atmospheric science, not balloon customers.

 Done

• @Alanna the Brave: All issues have been addressed. Can you take another look. Thanks. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:58, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

@Doug Coldwell: -- all right. You've addressed nearly everything I had on my list, and I've made some final edits to wrap it up: I expanded the lead; I replaced "Mary H. Myers" with "Mary Breed Hawley" in the lead (as per MOS:NEE, which recommends including the subject's original surname); I made a few more copy edits throughout the article for clarity; I shifted one business-related paragraph from "Early life" back into "Mid life and career"; and I added the clarification "According to Carl's calculations" to Myers' final record, as we still don't have any non-Carl sources. Otherwise, I'm now satisfied that this article meets GA criteria. Thanks for all the work! I know you were literally buried in GA nomination reviews this past week. Alanna the Brave (talk) 18:03, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• @Alanna the Brave: Thanks for the final edits. They look good. Thanks for approving and promoting. Her husband Carl Edgar Myers was my first Good Article. I did that huge article back in 2016. Yes, you are right = I am working on several reviews now at the same time. I have done 20 so far this month and have a few others that I did all the issues and waiting for final review.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:32, 11 October 2020 (UTC)