Talk:Martin Buß

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was no consensus. —Nightstallion (?) 08:47, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

rename Martin Buß to Martin Buss

Votes

Move proposed by User:71.31.46.194

• Oppose: Well, I hold my hands up, I moved it, but I did add a redirect from Martin Buss so the linkage is still there. There are several thousand pages which are like this, e.g. Martina Navratilova redirects to Martina Navrátilová, Petr Cech redirects to Petr Čech etc. I don't see the problem, but am happy to discuss further! Budgiekiller 18:29, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Heya. Look in the browser at the characters. Some body must have redirected it or moved it. The characters are not english in the url string. As far as I know everything on wikipedia has to be.--71.31.46.194 19:02, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand. If you check the URLs for the examples I've given above, they are not English characters. Budgiekiller 19:06, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

• Oppose, no reason not to use the correct spelling. URLs are allowed to contain any Unicode character, not just the smallest set of ASCII characters. Angr (t • c) 19:23, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
• Strongly support unless evidence can be found that this is how he is spelled in English commentary. As examples of the use of Buss:
  • The BBC report. The BBC is neither provincial nor careless.
  • Canadian Outdoor records list
  • His IAAF record page which uses Sevilla and München

  (These are chosen at random, as the first relevant results on googling Martin Edmonton high jump; of course, there are many sites which don't mention him at all. Septentrionalis 20:06, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

  I guess the fact that his name appears as Martin Buß in de.wikipedia.org [1] might count for something. Besides, the BBC certainly never use character modifiers such as in Petr Čech [2], so are we going to go back and change all other such names to the "English" (incorrect) commentary? Budgiekiller 20:11, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

  That is evidence how his name is spelt in German. This encyclopedia is written in English. This is to be decided on a case-by-case basis; I oppose a purge of ß. That is a straw man argument; we are no more goiong to do that than we are going to go through and change Nuremberg to Nürnberg everywhere, or Rome to Roma. Please read WP:UE. Septentrionalis 22:02, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

  Yeah, WP:UE, fine, but as you say, a case by case basis. And this just looks like making a lot of work for someone, when both this page and the Martin Buss redirect already exist. I vote we all head off and do something more constructive...! Budgiekiller 22:27, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

• Oppose and agree with Angr. Olessi 17:13, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
• Support non-7-bit-ASCII characters should be banned from titles. At the very least, non-English characters should be banned. 132.205.45.148 01:15, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Maybe they should be banned, but they're not, so it's not really a valid reason. Budgiekiller 07:24, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

• Support with reservations. I generally agree that names should be kept as close to the original spelling as possible, including diacritics, but I would make an exception for names using ß. For one, it is dissimilar in shape to ss so that most English readers unfamiliar with it tend to read it as a B. For two, it is being phased out in German (although not necessarily for own names). And for three everybody who sues an ß is used to seeing it changed to ss even in German, for instance if the name is capitalized (there is no capital ß, it's simply BUSS). But I take it this discussion should really be held somewhere else? ~ trialsanderrors 09:20, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

• Seems like a lenghtier debate has already happened here, although the results haven't been tabulated. ~ trialsanderrors 09:32, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

• Since the redirection already exists from Martin Buss (in the same way it does for Petr Cech), isn't this discussion becoming somewhat nugatory? Budgiekiller 11:55, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't think so, but it should probably be held at another location. ~ trialsanderrors 21:26, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Let me just add: trialsanderrors, the ß is *not* in the process of being phased out at all. The rules for when it should be used have just been streamlined. After the reform, the distinction between ß and ss is absolutely clear: ß comes after long vowels, ss after short ones, period.
That the Swiss have decided to abolish the ß entirely a long time ago is another matter entirely. Just trying to clarify this. —Nightstallion (?) 08:47, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Note I didn't use past tense. ~ trialsanderrors 08:57, 15 May 2006 (UTC)