Talk:Marlene Dietrich/Archive 1

Archive 1

Missing information

I'd like to get more information together on her cult of personality, political and social stances as well as her interactions with officials of the Third Reich.

Read Maria Riva's book or ask Silke Ronneburg at the Marlene Dietrich Collection Berlin (part of the FilmMuseum Berlin) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.113.122.107 (talk) 20:06, 4 April 2011 (UTC) --65.113.122.107 (talk) 20:34, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Song title

"Lili Marleen" seems to be the correct, original title of the song. See http://ingeb.org/garb/lmarleen.html

S.

On the covers of her albums, the title has been listed as "Lili Marlene," but her pronunciation remains consistantly "Lili Marleen" - make of it what you will. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.189.135.239 (talk) 14:04, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Bisexuality

I had no idea that many of those "old school" hollywood gals were bisexual.

~I have to agree with you. I would of thought that something such as Bisexuality would of been a risk that nobody in the hollywood would attempt.

This is nonsense... the studio system protected everyone. Later on, before the papraazzi of today, she could and did maintain privacy to a large degree. And I'm not "unsigned" I just can't figure out how to append my name: Peter Riva, grandson. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.113.122.107 (talk) 20:32, 4 April 2011 (UTC) --65.113.122.107 (talk) 20:35, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

marlene.eu

Is this deserving of its own section? Is it relevant at all? Perhaps a "Legacy" section or something similar (Trivia?) can be added for such info?Orbicle 10:21, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

"The heirs of Marlene Dietrich are currently suing the uncle of a 11-year old Danish girl, because he has bought the site marlene.eu for his daughter."

What can this mean? What has the fact that this man has an 11 year old niece got to do with anything? - Pepper 150.203.227.130 09:48, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

I totally agree. It may have something to do with something, but does it have anything to do with Dietrich? If others agree, maybe that section can be deleted? Orbicle 11:09, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

The so-called lawsuit was not that at all. An appeal was made to have all users of Marlene's name for web site url's to cease and desist... the "little girl" had a father who enjoyed speaking with the press on how cruel the business office of Marlene Inc. was... all the while making sure he could sell the url for $. The same sorts of discussions are ongoing with China, Taiwan, Tuvalu and others. The risk to Marlene is that someone would start a porno site using her name. Marlene is and was anti-pornography, nazism and other mis-uses of her name, fame and career. Peter Riva--65.113.122.107 (talk) 20:35, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

The lost earring

I think we should put something in about the lost earring. At Blackpool in 1934 Marlene lost an earring. This year, 73 years from that time, the amusement park found it. Pretty amazing. But where would we fit that into the article? 71.106.243.15 03:23, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Which newspaper or magazine first reported the loss? For that matter, which newspaper or magazine first reported it was found? 198.177.27.27 (talk) 06:36, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

We talked to them, it was a good earring but for pierced ears... she never pierced her ears. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.113.122.107 (talk) 20:11, 4 April 2011 (UTC) --65.113.122.107 (talk) 20:35, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Image and Legacy

"According to Frank Sinatra and other people Marlene was incredible at giving 'fellatio'"

Maybe this should be in another section ? Perhaps Trivia? I don't think it's relevant under the current heading. Perhaps somebody could update the "Image and Legacy" section as it is very fragmented at the moment. TonyPolar 09:58, 17 April 2007 (UTC

There are also stories of Dietrich visiting the European front to entertain GIs during 1944 and sleeping with the basic soldiers. I thought it was a well-known thing? I read this in a book about the 'Stars' who served in WW2. It is said she did her best to further the war effort in the fight against her mother country using whatever support she could offer. 82.42.43.176 (talk) 05:48, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm heard this story, too. She supposedly did it because she felt the boys deserved it, and not simply for her own pleasure. It should be in the article and briefly discussed. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 19:05, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Sinatra said what? According to whom? Show us one bit of evidence on that other than gossip. Soldiers: It was war, men needed comfort, a hug, whatever. Marlene was thinking of the greater good (ie stopping Nazism). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.113.122.107 (talk) 20:13, 4 April 2011 (UTC) --65.113.122.107 (talk) 20:36, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Dietrich's teeth

In Carol Channing's autobiography, Just Lucky I Guess, the actress recalls having dinner with Dietrich and her daughter. Noting that Dietrich ate nothing but cheese, Channing asked, and was told that Dietrich had had her molars taken out, in order to achieve that perfect sculptural look of her face and cheekbones. A sensational fact. But is it true? If so, it should be told, as an illustration of the lengths Hollywood stars would go to conquer their position. Has anyone of the Dietrich experts editing this article read anything similar? I have not, and think that Channing is telling tales. Johan, contributor to Swedish wikipedia --128.214.162.196 14:05, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

She might be telling tales, but the tale is not unique to her. Actually the rumor that Dietrich had her back teeth and sections of her jaw removed is rather well known among her fans. I personally don't think it is true because she always had high cheek bones and she lost alot of weight when she moved to Hollywood which helped improve her already beautifully sculptured face. I have not found anything on the internet about it but this was a real rumor and I have heard it before many times, if someone finds a scource it should be added. (Daniel Chiswick 00:47, 1 October 2007 (UTC))

Thanks for answering. From what I read somewhere, apart from sometimes eating little, Dietrich liked to cook, pork-filled, traditional German meals. She was not quite as artificial in real life as she might have seemed. So I surmise, about the teeth: a rumour or lore, spread by many, applicable to any cheek-boned star, nothing to state as a fact. Thanks! Johan, 11 October 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.214.162.196 (talk) 11:04, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Is there any evidence that she had cosmetic surgery such as facelifts, lip augmentation or perhaps even eyelifts later in her career? I am very surprised to learn she was in her late forties when she did Stage Fright. The article mentions clothing that helped maintain her youthful image, but I wonder if there is any evidence as to how her face remained so youthful looking? Omgplz (talk) 10:46, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Biographies and documentaries frequently mention her using tight braids (cornrows?) to pull her skin tight; they wouldn't show, as she almost always wore wigs. I've seen this more consistently than rumors of plastic surgery. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.189.135.239 (talk) 14:08, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Okay, for the RECORD (medical records on file in Berlin at the FilmMuseum): No, no teeth pulled ever, no jaw anything ever, no facelift surgery ever. I can assure you all that many asked her to fix all sorts of things (especially the Berlin flouride brownish teeth) - she never did, never would. She was herself, not something alterred. The tight briaids: True, see Maria Riva's book for description (she was there, everything else is gossip). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.113.122.107 (talk) 20:16, 4 April 2011 (UTC) --65.113.122.107 (talk) 20:36, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

WP:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers priority assessment

Per debate and discussion re: assessment of the approximate 100 top priority articles of the project, this article has been included as a top priority article. Wildhartlivie (talk) 11:14, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Linking years

User:John is removing years linked to "Year in film" articles, however there is a long-standing consensus among editors who write and edit articles related to film that the release dates of movies are appropriate to be linked to "Year in film", as are the birth and death dates of actors, and other important dates significant to film history. On the other hand, as shown by recent threads at WP:ANI concerning Lightbot, there is no consensus for the wholesale removal of linked dates. Linked dates are supposed to be appropriate and to add to the context of the article, and that is certainly that case with these dates. Ed Fitzgerald ^{t / c} 18:17, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for trying to personalize this. This discussion may be better held at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Films to try to generate a consensus to add these easter eggs in contravention of WP:CONTEXT. Failing that, I think we can safely dipense with them. --John (talk) 18:57, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

As I've mentioned to you before, these are not "easter eggs", there is nothing whatsoever hidden about them, they're merely links to "year in film" using a template. I'd appreciate it immensely if you'd drop that particular description during our subsequent discussions about these links.

I have posted on this subject at WT:WikiProject Films, so if you'd like to have the discussion there, that's fine with me. Ed Fitzgerald ^{t / c} 19:02, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

I have done. --John (talk) 19:04, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

And I have responded, so let's have the conversation there. Best, Ed Fitzgerald ^{t / c} 19:17, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Bisexual

She was bisexual. The private life section of the article states that she known to have had an affair with Mercedes de Acosta. Why isn't she in bisexual and LGBT categories? Werdnawerdna (talk) 22:36, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Why don't you add them? Ed Fitzgerald ^{t / c} 01:00, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Also missing from her details and those of the history of Germany postwar...the decadent lifestyles of Europe prior to the war were quite evident in a PBA documentary, and are missing...

"During her early years in Berlin, Dietrich enjoyed the thriving gay scene of the time and had a penchant for drag balls."

Disexual side of Marlene Dietrick

--Caesar J.B. Squitti: Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti (talk) 18:31, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Dietrich never had a penchant for anything with a label. She was not gay, lesbian, hetero - she was a person who followed her own passions, her own art, her own morals. She was not anti-German (she was anti-Nazi), she was not pro-somefore of sex (she was private and did not discuss such intimacies). She fell into and out of love - music, a person (note not male or female - a human being), a play, a film, a country, cooking, etc. Was she occasionally involved with men and women (separately, not together)? Yes. Read Maria Riva's book for the facts (not the usual BS from gossipers). Should she be listed amongst supporters of civil rights, the LGBT movement, so-called pro-Gay Marriage rights, etc. Sure, why not, but she would shun and abhor the label that gos along with peoples' need to categorizer her as something not herself. She was unique. Peter Riva, grandson.--65.113.122.107 (talk) 20:37, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Paltrow and Thurman's unmade biopics

First off, I'd like to apologize for removing the recent addition of this information in the article without writing an edit summary. I certainly could have fixed the grammatical error in the statement and left it at that. Neither Paltrow nor Thurman's biopic ever went into production, though; thus, they don't belong in a sub-section of produced and released films, under a larger section about pop culture. How is pop culture manifested in non-existent films? I certainly consider the trivia noteworthy for this article and have a source for it here, but I don't know where I'd insert it without making the article more choppy than it already is.Raskovnik (talk) 20:47, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Don't worry - we're about to remedy all this in late 2011. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.113.122.107 (talk) 20:23, 4 April 2011 (UTC) --65.113.122.107 (talk) 20:37, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Marie Magdalene Dietrich

Biographer Stephen Bach, in the source notes to his biography, specifically points out that Dietrich's registered name at birth was Marie Magdalene (not "Maria Magdalene"). The former spelling is also used in the book Photograps and Memories as well as on the official sites, www.marlene.com and www.marlenedietrich.org TonyPolar (talk) 14:47, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Date with Hitler?

I suppose it's the story that would have to be invented if it didn't happen.

But in the short interval after 'The Blue Angel', when she was still living in Berlin, Hitler identified her as the perfect Aryan beauty, and wanted her to join his party, which was still looking respectable at that time. Over dinner, she refused the offer, and later claimed virtuously that she couldn't stand his politics. But meanwhile she had confided to a girlfriend that it was his breath she couldn't stand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.144.247.240 (talk) 15:50, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

God, we, the family, love it when people made this nonsense up. Total rubbish, of course, but sounds good. She was WAY too high class to ever think of meeting that peasant turned butcher.--65.113.122.107 (talk) 20:39, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Marlene

She's mentioned in a song from the 1970 Eurovision song contest. I think it should be added to the article.

No.Sartoresartus (talk) 11:00, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Atheism

I've found a few online sources that indicate Dietrich was an atheist, in particular this quote as well as to a couple sites which had quotations from her daughter's (Maria Riva) biography of her. If some one has a copy of that book, or other biographies which could firmly source her atheism, it could be added somewhere discreetly so people aren't prone to removing the categories. - BalthCat (talk) 02:46, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

The actual issue is that this article must support the addition of a category when the category is added. If you want to add content from reliable sources to support the category, then that is fine, but the category can't come before the egg, so to speak. That's why it was removed, I'd guess. It's why I am going to remove it until the article supports the category. Wildhartlivie (talk) 03:10, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Very well, then I call on some one with more google energy than I do right now to try to find a web source in the meantime :P - BalthCat (talk) 03:34, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

She wasn't an atheist, she simply did not believe in organized religion. --65.113.122.107 (talk) 20:40, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

lighthearted Western?

"Destry Rides Again" is definitely a comedy. But it has serious elements as well -- and Frenchy dies to save Destry's life. I would recommend removing "light-hearted". WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 19:02, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

When has Marlene Dietrich's father died?

When has Marlene Dietrich's father died? this text there's mentioned 1911, in the German text it mentioned 1908. Which year he died? --Holger1974 (talk) 17:50, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Deletion of passages

In case you consider any passages insufficiently sourced, you may wish to add a 'citation needed' tag. The fact that your sensitive soul revolts at the facts is insufficient grounds for deleting entire passages. In this instance all additions were sourced and footnoted. I did not give page numbers because the Riva book, which is by far the most reliable source we have, is somewhat, shall we say, rondo-like in its reprisal of themes, so there'd be at least 20 pages to cite for each item. I've added page numbers where that is appropriate or else put 'passim'. The full reference for the book is given in the 'further reading' section, but I've now added it in the first reference. I think you will agree that we do not then need to repeat it in each subsequent footnote. None of these statements are particularly controversial and are mostly corroborated by other contemporary accounts. That you consider them 'unsourced trashing' points to a worrying bias in favour of a sanitised account, which may be appropriate for a fansite but has no place in an encyclopedia. Sartoresartus (talk) 08:21, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

A bit more into detail would be nice

I've been reading the article and it is generally a nice one, but it leaves many questionmarks. Its interesting that she became US citizen in 1939, but it would be interesting to know when exactly she left Germany and how her ties to the U.S. began. WHich was the first movie she made in Hollywood? What were here reasons for leaving? Just political (She did not seem to act in any political party in germany) or career? Or a mix of both? When did she start to develop the addiction to alcohol? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.189.228.31 (talk) 20:14, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

See the first paragraph under 'Film star.'Sartoresartus (talk) 00:16, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Became US Citizen to say something to Germany, to show support to the USA and to be able to raise US war bonds (and secretly help the OSS). Politics: She was not political, preferring to follow talented people and listen to what they had to say. Hitler struck her and Rudi as particularly dangerous (from 1931 onwards) and so she refused to return to Germany - taking daughter Maria to the US in 1931 instead. Rudi lived in the US and Paris (working for Paramount) and similarly never returned to Germany, ever. He became an American in 1940/41 in support of the US entering the war.

Alcohol: She was not so much addicted... she came from an era of rinks before dinner, drinks during dinner and drinks after. As the decades wore on, especially with the pain in her legs from being frozen in WWII in the Ardennes, she drank more heavily until she consumed alcohol regularly and in large quantities. This drinking lasted 'til her death.--65.113.122.107 (talk) 20:43, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Image Caution

Caution: Commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:German stamp- Marlene Dietrich crop.PNG   — Jeff G.  ツ 03:38, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Marlene Dietrich UK Website

Please visit my UK website to Marlene Dietrich. This site is an 'overview' of Marlene Dietrich and links to the main Dietrich sites. http://marlenedietrich.org.uk/ My site conforms with the Dietrich Estate and MDCB requirements and have been granted permission to use her name and images. Please can i have a link on the Wikipedia Dietrich page to my site ? (Hall1901)— Preceding unsigned comment added by Hall1901 (talk • contribs) 2007-05-27, 17:17:19, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Typical wikipedia bias shows its ugly self yet again.

The only citation to back up the assertion that she was bisexual is to some obscure British web site catering to homosexuals. Just replace "bisexual" with "fundamentalist Christian" and you'd have howls of "Where's the reliable source?" Oh, and I just found another one. Who says she was an atheist. Atheists, of course!

No, it isn't. The most solid evidence comes from her daughter's book, which is listed at the end, though there are numerous accounts from other contemporaries. It's uncontroversial, but since we have to pick one source we might as well use this one as I can't be bothered to change it.Sartoresartus (talk) 10:59, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes it is biased, and so are you. There is no citation to any book, so your claim is just more biased balderdash.

208.127.128.3 (talk) 20:38, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia is the most biased source I've ever seen. I agree with you mostly. -SANC —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.129.92.39 (talk) 15:25, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

You find an issue with one article, and you damn the entire project on that basis? All 3 million-odd articles are suspect because of problems you see in one of them? Get real. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 12:52, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

The "real" truth is that the bias is systematic and widespread, and held by the administrators of wikipedia. This is not the place to discuss the thousands of articles that show bias. t

And not the place to have ever raised this issue in the first place. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 01:19, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

ribs Gummo

she is mentioned in the film Gummo about how she had ribs removed to have more of an hour glass figure. Is this true, or at lest a real rumor outside of the movie? Should this refference be added has Marlene in pop culture? --24.94.251.190 (talk) 03:18, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

No need: she wore a corset, which is mentioned.Sartoresartus (talk) 13:49, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Total nonsense about the ribs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.113.122.107 (talk) 20:30, 4 April 2011 (UTC) --65.113.122.107 (talk) 20:43, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Removed Tag

I notice there are a grand total of two citation-needed inserts, the second of them in a sentence which actually links the film to which it refers, which is further listed at the end. This is childish, so I'm removing the 'I want even more references' tag.Sartoresartus (talk) 01:24, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

When did Dietrich become a US citizen? 1939 or 1937?

We have had problems recently with vandalism by one (or more) anonymous user(s) with no record who arbitrarily change dates in the article. So I was at first skeptical when an anonymous user just now changed the year for MD's US citizenship in the intro to this article (from 1939 to 1937). The 1939 date had stood in the article for more than a year without challenge. However, the 1937 date is cited to what looks like a bona fide website on MD's life. In addition, IMDB also quotes a date in 1937. I am therefore proposing to let the new date stand for now. However, if other users have access to more detailed reliable sources on Dietrich's life and career, it would be good to get this point confirmed authoritatively. Nandt1 (talk) 11:31, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

IMDB isn't a reliable source. No time to check into this further right now, but I'll try to take a look soon. NB: given the conflicting info floating around out there, date changes aren't necessarily arbitrary, let alone vandalism. Rivertorch (talk) 05:30, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for any solid research you can undertake. While I agree with you that date changes here are not necessarily vandalism, I would suggest that any changes that are unsourced are at this stage pretty much worthless. I also place rather more trust in users who have a name on Wikipedia and an editing record compared to those with just a number and no history. Nandt1 (talk) 11:34, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

According to newspaper reports of the time, Dietrich applied for US citizenship in 1937 ("Marlene Dietrich to be US Citizen". Painesville Telegraph, 6 March1937); it was granted in 1939 (see "Citizen Soon". The Telegraph Herald, 10 March 1939and "Seize Luggage of Marlene Dietrich". (Lawrence Journal World, 14 June 1939). The latter reports that this was the first time she was sailing as an American citizen . I'll update the article accordingly. TonyPolar (talk) 16:50, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Contralto

This article says that she had a limited voice range because she was a contralto - but one doesn't have to do with the other. Contralto just means a low singing voice. She might have had a limited voice range AND been a contralto, but she did not have a limited voice range BECAUSE she was a contralto. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.184.75.54 (talk) 19:27, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

And when did she marry? 1923 or 1924? And when was her Daughter Born?

Same type of issue as above. This article has shown her as marrying in 1924, but now we have an apparently bona fide source for a marriage date of 1923. Though there are others which say 1924.

And while this article has been showing her daughter as born in 1924, I see that there seem to be a good many sources giving a 1925 birth date.... Nandt1 (talk) 21:12, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Just to emphasize the point a bit, I am concerned that many of the online sources are likely to be unreliable here. I say this because I have seen how they contradict each other, and also because I think there is a danger that they corrupt one another -- one copying another. Is there a really solid dependable print biography of Dietrich that one could rely on to get these dates straoghtened out? Nandt1 (talk) 00:41, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

I don't know, but I agree with you about online sources: I consulted several today and was left feeling unsure about the daughter's birth date. Until someone with good library access happens on the scene, it might be acceptable to insert a parenthetical note that there sources diverge on this point. Rivertorch (talk) 05:27, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Per the above suggestion, I have annotated the footnotes for those dates which seem to be in contention, so as to warn readers. I see this as a stopgap solution until someone with access to impeccable sources can sort out this confusion. I knew there had been some murkiness over Marlene's birthdate -- one would expect that(!) -- but had no idea it extended to so many other dates. Nandt1 (talk) 15:04, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Add to the list of contested dates, whether her father died in 1907 or 1911. Nandt1 (talk) 02:16, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

marlene loved peanuts — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.195.179.120 (talk) 15:16, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

• According to biographer Steven Bach, Dietrich married Rudolf Sieber in 1923: "Marlene and Rudi met in late 1922 and were married on May 17, 1923, in the registry office of the Berlin suburb of Friedenau..." (Bach, Steven. "Marlene Dietrich: Life and Legend". University of Minnesota Press, 2011. Page 62.)
• On page 65: "Maria Elisabeth Sieber was born December 13, 1924 ... [t]he baby was called Heidede within the family..."
• Page 19: "By the time Marlene was six she was in her fourth home, and then suddenly a fifth, at which Josephine [Marlene's mother] listed herself in the growing Berlin telephone book as "Dietrich, Josephine, Ww.," or Witwe -- widow." Bach says "there is no extant official record" of Dietrich's father's death, but notes that "the year before his death he and Josephine had separate telephones at separate addresses, suggesting the love match (if it was that) was over" and that "Marlene later said she had known her father only as a 'shadowy silhouette', which is not surprising if her parents had separated before she reached shool age". Seems that Louis Erich Otto Dietrich's year of death was 1907.

TonyPolar (talk) 23:12, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Dietrich's date of birth

In reading one of the sources provided for information concerning Dietrich's citizenship application, I noticed that the source also gave a different birthdate, indirectly, than the one provided in the entry. The Telegraph Herald of Dubuque, Iowa from March 10, 1939 indicates that, according to Dietrich, "she was born in Berlin 33 years ago". Is this merely an example of Dietrich lying about her age, a very common practice in Hollywood in those days, or is it simply an error in reporting? None of the other sources I have looked at on the web indicated anything other than the 1901 birth date, however, it is curious that a newspaper would seem to be indicating that Dietrich's date of birth was 1906. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.141.154.75 (talk) 03:45, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

She was always faking her age. In 1951, when she was turning fifty, she complained that a magazine had quoted her age as forty-seven. She insisted she was only forty-four. ("I was very young when I married...") For years, a birthdate of 1904 was regarded as the official one, until someone eventually discovered the true date. 109.154.14.8 (talk) 18:54, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Abortion & Jimmy Stewart

I've just read that she became pregnant to James Stewart during the filming of Destry Rides Again. She told him, but he just walked away, and she was left to arrange an abortion. Anyone know about this? -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 09:13, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

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Dietrich awarded the Medal of Freedom

The article and its source states she was awarded this medal in 1945. I thought the Medal of Freedom didn't come into existence until 1946.TL36 (talk) 08:57, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

It's possible the CIA document is in error. From https://books.google.com/books?id=gQdxBgAAQBAJ&pg=PT375 and http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/marlene-dietrich-schauspielerin-d-general-maxwell-d-taylor-news-photo/537159909 it looks like she received this medal in November 1947. Interestingly, the common claim that the Medal of Freedom was the highest civilian award issued by the US government (as stated in the New York Times' obit for Dietrich, for example) was not true at the time; the contemporary Medal of Merit had a higher precedence per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awards_and_decorations_of_the_United_States_government#Office_of_the_President_of_the_United_States. The Medal of Freedom definitely existed in 1945, however; see http://www.trumanlibrary.org/executiveorders/index.php?pid=778&st=&st1= and http://web.archive.org/web/20041124213832/www.medaloffreedom.com/1945Recipients.htm for example. Unfortunately the latter site does not appear to have complete lists of medals awarded, as Dietrich's is missing. 71.197.166.72 (talk) 21:11, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

IN this article, it is specified that it was awrded "after the war" - perhaps wikipedia can specify it this way; certainly, there was some delay between the decision, and the minting of the medals or actual presentation. Awards can be ambiguous in that way. Scr★pIron^IV 21:17, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

I found http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive/pdf?res=9B02E2D9113AE233A2575BC1A9679D946693D6CF which seems pretty definite. I will use it as a reference to change the article to say 1947. 71.197.166.72 (talk) 23:24, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Has her personal life been updated to replace the gossip books Sappho goes to Hollywood; with is 3rd rate sources . The German personal life page of Wkipedia Marlene Dietrich should simply been downloaded and replace and ratified in the English language Dietrich personall life;which in the English language site which is hopeless it reads like a gossip blog in the Globe magazine. Filmfan65 (talk) 21:53, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

Affair with Fairbanks Jr

Under Personal Life her one year romance (affair) with Fairbanks Jr is referenced as being while he was married to Crawford. I dont know how to navigate the politics of Wikipedia and my initial edit to correct that was removed. I suppose the easiest source to cite would be the Fairbanks Jr autobiography Salad Days where chapter 16 is largely devoted to Dietrich and clearly maps out the timeframe of their romance and subsequent reasons for the breakup and the fact they remained lifelong friends afterwards. I have no idea who this author is who the initial editor referenced. Every book or movie I have ever seen on Dietrich, Fairbanks Jr and Crawford never have their paths crossing until 1936, roughly two years after the Crawford/Fairbanks Jr divorce was finalized and a full three years after they separated. Every piece of media I have ever seen of the two together is from 1936-1937. And of course Dietrich was the one who was actually married (an open marriage) during the affair. Rjt378 (talk) 08:10, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

Marlene Dietrich sexuality

The sewing circle did not exist no evidence of it has been found . It was a lnvention of Kenneth Anger in the 70s why not referance her daughter biography of her mother? This one is the worse of the wiki bio for factual errors . Too much gossip no facts; she deserves better.

Filmfan65 (talk) 11:19, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Even her daughter claims that Marlene had many affairs with women, also, everything in the article has sources.--88marcus (talk) 00:34, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

Neutrality problem

On the 2nd line beginning with "Throughout her long career (which spanned..." I believe it requires a quotation to ensure it does not sound informal and biased. Heptanitrocubane (talk) 19:20, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

An edit needed so that the truth be told

It's tempting to spin things to your own ends, but this is, I feel, taking spin too far:

"The collaboration of one actress and director creating seven films is still unmatched in cinema history, with the exception Katharine Hepburn and George Cukor, who made ten films together."

Not only is this pet collaboration not "unmatched"; it's bettered. So, a more honest and impartial expression (with the spotlight directed where it should be) would be along these lines:

"The collaboration of one actress and director creating seven films is second only to the record set by Katharine Hepburn and George Cukor, who made ten films together." That's assuming the facts are correct: I haven't checked them. My point is about being honest and straightforward. Something the world needs more of. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:4898:80E8:E:0:0:0:7C8 (talk) 02:09, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

a marquee live-show performer

I have no idea what marquee means in this context. There is nothing else in the article that explains it. It surely doesn't mean tent (nothing in the article suggests this). This should be made clear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.148.237.125 (talk) 18:04, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

[response from an arbitrary Wikipedia user: I believe that this comment can be disregarded as an anomaly, since most people know what "marquee" means in this context. For your info, though: the marquee is the strip of signage above the entrance to a theater where the show's name and the name(s) of its stars are given in large glyphs. A "marquee <something>" is figuratively "a very important <something>", but here the meaning is a nice combination of figurative and literal since Dietrich's name would likely have appeared on the marquee.] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:4898:80E8:E:0:0:0:7C8 (talk) 02:14, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Error?

Dietrich swarmed around Garbo and told her how inspiring she was, calling Garbo goettlich (divine) and an unsterbliche (undying) muse.[96] Dietrich was evidently unimpressed by Garbo...

Don't you mean 'Garbo was evidently unimpressed by Dietrich'? Valetude (talk) 15:53, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

I'm not even sure it's possible for an individual to swarm, is it? Yes, it might well be an error, but that whole section is wholly unsourced, so I've added a tag. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:05, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion:

• Marlene Dietrich (in gymnastics dress), c. 1910 (Deutsche Kinemathek, Marlene Dietrich Collection, Berlin).jpeg
• Marlene Dietrich by Joël-Heinzelmann Atelier, 1918 (Deutsche Kinemathek, Marlene Dietrich Collection, Berlin).jpeg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. Community Tech bot (talk) 21:24, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

Marlene Dietrich

The source notes on wiki page for Marlene Dietrich seems dated back to 2000. Try Marlene Dietrich By Maria Riva Pub 5 feb 2019 (updated) Also Obession: Marlene Dietrich The Pierre Passebin collection Pub 5 April 2018 Andrew Dock 65 (talk) 12:35, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Source notes for Marlene Dietrich need updating book references date to 2000. Try new source notes Obession :Marlene Dietrich The Pierre Passebon collection 5 April 2018 And Marlene Dietrich By Maria Riva 5 Feb 2019 The only biography to rely on her diaries and letters. I have not seen any change in the Dietrich wiki site for years understandable if nothing new;but new letters and diaries available to the public is a big deal. Andrew Dock 65 (talk) 12:45, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Box office popularity

Information I have found

I have done extensive research surrounding Marlene Dietrich. From what I have gathered, in 1932, Dietrich ranked 9th in box office popularity, not 19th as Wikipedia states. I have also found information supporting the fact that she ranked 30th in 1933; 57th in 1934; 73rd in 1935; 89th in 1936; and 126th in 1937. It goes without much surprise that she was labeled "Box Office Poison" (along with multiple other stars) in 1938. Very few of Dietrich's so-called "classic" films that she made in the 1930s were successful. The Blue Angel was an international success; her first American films, such as Morocco and Dishonored were successful, but Shanghai Express and Blonde Venus (both 1932) have been cited as her biggest commercial successes during the period. In discovering the success of The Song of Songs (1933), her first American movie not directed by Josef von Sternberg, some websites call it a failure, while others say it was a moderate or major success.

Most websites agree that The Scarlet Empress was her first major box office flop. It met with much controversy from the Hays Office as well. Her final collaboration with von Sternberg in 1935's The Devil Is a Woman was also a financial failure. Over time, Dietrich became frustrated at what she thought to be "poor quality" scripts she was being offered by Paramount. She soon went against her contract and expected what she considered "better parts" in independent films: she received $300,000 (not $250,000 as Wikipedia states) for The Garden of Allah (1936) for Selznick-International Pictures, and she was paid $450,000 for Knight Without Armour (1937) in Britain. Both films are notorious for being box office bombs. The failure of the films supposedly led to Paramount dropping her contract, and her being absent from acting for two years. It was rumored her career was finished, especially after she was labeled "Box Office Poison".

Her career revived in Destry Rides Again in 1939. She remained successful at the box office for the next three years, but after The Spoilers (1942) her popularity again waned. The majority of her films throughout the remainder of the 1940s were not major successes. By the 1950s, film offers became fewer and smaller, but she managed to appear in a string of successes, such as Rancho Notorious (1952), Around the World in 80 Days (1956), Witness for the Prosecution (1957), and Touch of Evil (1958). Her acclaimed performance in Judgment at Nuremberg (1961) was her last major movie role. Aside from the infrequent cameo appearance, she did not act thereafter.

What needs to be done

I believe that this Wikipedia page on Marlene Dietrich, one of the most-glamorous and longest stars in Hollywood, is much too short. Her film career in summed up in just a few paragraphs. The films she appeared in and the directors she worked with are mentioned in sequence, and the vast majority of her films are unmentioned. There should certainly be more reference to her movies, her instant box office popularity drop, and her nickname becoming "La Dietrich". Sections need to be expanded with more fulfilling information.

I there is no objection, I can add what information I have found on Miss Dietrich to make this article fuller and more informative. I would be happy to contribute, as I have done with the expansion of the Greta Garbo page.

Marlene Dietrich

Reading encyclopedia britannica l thought your writing on Dietrich was very good on wikipedia but l think to much attention was paid to her sex life if she were really doing all this things her daughter would have mentioned it in her autobiography; she mentioned women, Dietrich was in love with but not the names listed in the wiki article. Try new sources 1. Steven Bach Marlene Dietrich life and legend 1992. 2. Marlene Dietrich by her daughter Maria Riva update recently. 3. Marlene Dietrich : Her own story made for TV documentary by her grandson.

This is some of the references on encyclopedia britannica hope they help with updating Marlene Dietrich wiki site. Andrew Dock 65 (talk) 13:37, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

Thank you! We do have a problem at English Wikipedia with the addition of too much gossip on sexuality. I wish we didn't. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 23:20, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

External links

Four could be consider excessive but fifteen "External links" is far too many. This is currently a cultivated link farm with sites that inundate Wikipedia providing no actual unique resources (#1) that just becomes promotion (#4), so needs trimming a lot. Otr500 (talk) 03:23, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

Affairs/Relationships

The article list quite a number of affairs/relationship, which are only sourced with a book/biography written by her daughter. At least at first glance that strikes me a bit dodgy. some third party sources, which confirm or at least independently assess her daughter's descripütions/claims might be needed.--Kmhkmh (talk) 15:07, 15 October 2020 (UTC)