Talk:Marianne Williamson/Archive 1

Archive 1

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I spent several hours trying to track down exactly where Mandela spoke this, as it is such a beautiful statement, and I wanted to really know if that was how Mandela thought. Much to my disappointment, after doing numerous word searches through his speech database, it became clear that he did not ever say this in any of his recorded speeches. Perhaps somebody should write to him and tell him about the story of this whole mis-quote, so he can put it into one of his future speeches!!!! Scott P. 12:03, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

There are extreme WP:NOR and NPOV issues here. The article claims: "A certain passage from her book is possibly one of the most widely misquoted passages in modern history" needs to be directly attributed. As it stands, it is merely an offhand claim, which is only made POV by its assertion that its "one of the most misquoted"-SV|t 06:46, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing out the need for substantiation

Dear Steve,
          You are indeed correct that the way this was worded, it appeared to be mere conjecture. I have since inserted substantiating information, plus additional information about Mrs. Williamson.

Thanks,

Scott P. 20:46, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

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article

I tried to clear up this article a bit and also added new headings. More info needs to be added about her... --Mimi C. 05:44, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Created page for "A Return to Love"

In attempting to edit this article, it occurred to me that A Return to Love indeed deserves its own article because the book is the most successful book of ACIM interpretation, and one of the most successful self-help/New Thought books of all time. That in itself makes the book notable. As I mention on the page (a cited and quoted mention, by the way), this book gained Marianne Williamson time on Oprah, 20/20, and was Publisher's Weekly's best seller for about 10 weeks. That in itself makes the book notable.

Marianne Williamson is the author of many other books, but in my opinion only this first one is notable and deserves its own page. Every subsequent book by Marianne Williamson has carried the notice "By the author of A Return to Love". I think it is fine to mention her bibliography on this page, but I think that this one book in particular deserves its own page.

There are certain books that have had deep impacts within certain genres and deserve their own pages aside from the page devoted to the other. For example, Melody Beattie has her own page, and so does the book Codependent No More. I think we have a similar situation with Marianne and Return to Love. -- Andrew Parodi 08:54, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

If you would read the article and particpate in discussions you would know that there are eighteen books in total and that it has already been decided that this page should contain brief synopsis of those books. Whatever those synopsis are, I will warn you know, will need to have been written in the public by other professional editors and cited in the reference section, otherwise whatever it is will be original research. Ste4k 09:36, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I completely endorse Ste4k's comments here. Non-notable articles should be put through AfDs and should not be linked from this article. --Nearly Headless Nick 10:53, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Her teachings are very dangerous. She denies the supremacy of Jesus Christ. She is another New Age false prophet. {{unsigned|70.246.125.23}

This article is written with NPOV. Ste4k 01:08, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree that this page is unblemished hagiography.

Is there any objective evidence supporting the claim "working with ... the homeless on L.A.'s streets"? The reference cited doesn't mention homeless, just AIDS patients. (it is also a highly critical review from a biased source). I could find no evidence on the web that she has ever done any work with the homeless in Los Angeles.

Does she really believe, as the CRI site claims, that AIDS patients should employ "enlightened visualizations" to effect healing or that a person who is ill only thinks he or she is ill and that healing comes not from pills but from belief? If so, an objective (wikipedia bio style) reference to the fact that there exist controversies around her views might be in order.

(previous edit appears to have overwritten/deleted "this is unblemished hagiography" comment -- please restore that comment. Sorry about that.)

The theology of this lady is dangerous and outside the pale of Christian orthodoxy. She denies the primacy of Jesus Christ.

I wanted a link to the Center For Living. It seems the Manhattan Center For Living was closed in 1994. The LA Center For Living has changed its name to Angel Food Ministries and is doing very well. More information is neede here. I would also have liked to see something about her association with Louise Hay and Hay House. Healingworks 17:06, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Performed Merge

The book had it's own article with very little information. It is doubtful this person meets WP:BIO, but a merge will at least put the information in one place. The article on the book has very little. Ste4k 18:34, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

The redirect from the merge left about four links ambiguous which I cleaned up. Ste4k 19:13, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Some notes while I am working on this article: I condensed the thesis and completed the merge removing redundancy and added the reference section. Some notes on the reference section: Please don't add "official" web sites since WP cannot ever determine whom is official and whom is not unless the subject in question actually owns the site and is listed with the internet registrar. Also, it's very touching that links to CD's and music sites were added, but a notable person such as Marianne really doesn't need the hype associated with her name and people can dig for those sorts of things on their own. It doesn't make sense to pick out one of thousands of music/CD/DVD sites and associate that site with the subject and it could easily be misconstrued as advertising for one or another site or connecting that site purposely with her name. Ste4k 20:31, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I dug into the officialness of the web-site in question and the most that we can actually print without any original research is simply the name, address, and webmaster, etc., since it hasn't received any notoriaty of its own at this time. Ste4k 21:07, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

This is fairly NPOV now, has a variety of notable sources, shows her many perspectives, and it topic centric. Ste4k 22:26, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

This article is pretty good for a stub, and is quite informative. However, there were a few little grammatical errors (I've fixed a couple) I also removed "But the press has failed to give her the praise she deserves for her work for dying AIDS and cancer patients and the homeless on L.A.'s streets." because it could be interpreted as POV (the Centers for Living sentence is sufficient).

The last paragraph (the part starting with "the message fills...") may also need to be rechecked as possibly being POV. Also, you should give some examples of some of her published works - there's a chance they could have articles on here (if they do, link them - if not, don't). Other than that, it's pretty good. --Coredesat talk 05:47, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Regarding "the message fills", I agree that it appears POV, however, since it is nearly a direct quote of the cited source, it would actually be POV to change it in any way. It should be noted that no mention here is given to whether or not "filling" is good or bad or otherwise, nor that it does this "filling" in a qualitative sense such as "well" or "poorly". It was a tough decision to make right there. The only POV that I can still admit remains is that by stating that there is something that it "fills", the statement implies that there is a gap. There isn't any real resource to cite for such a gap, nor did the article in question go deep enough to justify that comment. Ste4k 08:27, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

After some consideration on the matter, I will change the word "fills" to "addresses", and look at rewording that clause. Ste4k 08:30, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

About the "But the press..." sentence, you should probably leave out the "the press failed to give her the praise she deserves..." even though it's almost a direct quote, but instead rephrase it into something more NPOV, like "(sentence about her opening the Centers for Living). Despite this, she has failed to attract any attention or awareness from the press" or something like that. That's probably not much less POV, but writing NPOV articles is fairly hard work. --Coredesat talk 10:12, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you completely. And will try to reword and possibly meld the two statements together. We shouldn't be agreeing with any particular POV statement made by a cited source. Ste4k 10:16, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I replaced that whole section with a comma, and removed some jumbly words, moved the large citation which backs up the others to the end of the entire affair. Hope that works. The way reads now though is that the press is "popular". That should also be removed, imho. Ste4k 10:39, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

The sentence "That is the essential core of her appeal" should be merged with the preceding sentence somehow to remove the earlier concern, and specifically the mention of a "void" between the two philosophies which is implied POV. Ste4k 10:42, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

2014 US House campaign

Wukai/AlsoWukai; you need to (1) Explain your edits using the WP:EDITSUMMARY field, and (2) Gain WP:CONSENSUS for your changes, which you have been edit-warring over for a day and a half now. Per WP:BRD, please do not make any further changes until you gain consensus on this talkpage. Softlavender (talk) 00:45, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

She opposes mandatory vaccination

She described them as "Orwellian". An editor has whitewashed this from the article. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 12:39, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

Another editor deleted her remarks in full and added some campaign speak on the issue to replace the RS reporting - which is not how we do things. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 13:09, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

I have started a discussion on the BLP noticeboard.[1] I cannot discuss this here with myself while it's being reverted by editors who not only remove the text without cause but are brazen enough to insist that I "discuss on article talkpage" while they themselves are no-shows.[2] Snooganssnoogans (talk) 23:30, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

Relatedly, I also think its interesting that any references to the term 'new age' seem to have been removed from the body.

Not nearly complete...

I'm unclear on a lot of the details, but she was also a minister(for lack of a better word) at the Church of Today (later the Church of Renaissance Unity) in Warren Michigan. There was also a rather ugly departure from the church. Oh yes, it also had a TV show; "Sunday's With Marianne" I believe. I'm not much for elegant wording, so if somebody else wanted to add this in...yeah.

I stuck the stub tag on there. This article really needs more to it. I would do it myself, but you know, exam time :P Limited Moon

This article needs a lot more information. I'm no expert on Marianne Williamson, but I know she has a much more extensive biography, there is much more involved in how she became an author, and I know that the Course in Miracles has its own substantial history that precedes her, and she somehow got involved in popularizing it again. There must be somebody out there who knows all of these details. Jurgfella (talk) 14:57, 10 March 2013 (UTC)jurgfella

Because the article contains no information whatsoever about her relationship (or former relationship) with Unity Church, I removed "{{Unity footer}}". Editors can feel free to put it back in, if some explanation is provided in the article. 71.219.214.111 (talk) 15:21, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

I am familiar with Marianne from when she first became an author. It should be pointed out that most of her thoughts and books come from "A Course in Miracles". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.107.113.20 (talk) 13:07, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

A Course in Miracles

I have come back to the editing team after a 21 year period of a severe disability. I apologize if my remarks are not done correctly. I have been involved with "A Course in Miracles" (ACIM) from close to the beginning. I have studied the Text, done the Workbook, read the Manual for Teachers many times over many hours and years. I was involved in the version wars and so much more. I understand it and was able to to realize the end result over a period of 3 days on a silent meditation retreat.

Now that Marianne is a presidential candidate, it should be added to her profile her close association with ACIM. Many if not most of the ideas in her books come from ACIM. She has co-authored at least one early book. She teaches ACIM.

I read a transcript of the second debate. It was clear to me then that she still has not fully understood some of the key concepts of ACIM. She obviously judges the current President. Judgement is one of the key psychological mechanisms that started and maintains the great separation. In addition, she cannot manipulate Love in some kind of political battlefield. Love has no favorites.

I still have the severe disability. I do not think that I can re-learn Wikipedia's editing skills and catch up with the new ones or write a section properly. If you look at my profile, I have a star for some of my work on ACIM. At this point I need someone to step up and carry the torch. I would be happy to try to help. For a start go the Goggle and look up Marianne Williamson together with A Course in Miracles.

—Who123 12:07, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

basic income

her website says she supports universal basic income like andrew yang. is this notable for the article? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Michael Ten (talk) 16:58, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Objectionable introductory sentences. And . . .

My problem with the introductory sentences is that they sound as though they were written for the purpose of giving positive publicity to the subject of this article.

And, it's hard to believe that there aren't a fair number of people who have criticized her work. Why does the article say nothing whatsoever about them?Daqu (talk) 20:04, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

A second objection: her description as a politician. She has not held any political office. Therefore, "aspiring politician" may be a more appropriate description. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:6000:AA00:FBB2:222:69FF:FE4C:408B (talk) 17:51, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

“Spiritual Leader”?

Is this an appropriate description of Ms. Williamson? A cursory search of the rest of wikipedia shows that this is a relatively rare descriptor, that seems to be used mostly for people who are actually actively members of clergy or religious organizations. 2601:19B:B00:2CD:1141:BC4B:FBDD:6B0C (talk) 01:29, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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Page for 2024 Presidential campaign

The subheading on 2020 presidential campaign has one. Should 2024? Apinchofspence (talk) 22:54, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

It should But for sooome reason it was rejected. Even RFK Jr. got a wiki article faster than her. Sgt12221 (talk) 02:44, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Russia, Ukraine

Nowhere is there any reference to her positions on Russia, Ukraine and NATO. Difficult to justify ... Lestrad (talk) 06:49, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

Strange Accent

It would be interesting to know how she got such a strange accent. Has she spent a lot of time abroad or with people not born in the US? Where does this odd accent come from? 125.25.17.107 (talk) 07:08, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

"Has she spent a lot of time...with people not born in the US?" Her parents perhaps? HiLo48 (talk) 03:41, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Sure, but where did they get it? InedibleHulk (talk) 06:28, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

"Her father, and maternal grandparents, were Russian Jewish immigrants..." HiLo48 (talk) 07:30, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

And then she grew up in Texas. Technically part of America, but a strange part, including accent-wise. And then Houston is "a bit different" from the stereotypical cowgirl twang, more just your average gigantic urban "Western world" melting pot. Anyway, I like the cut of her jib, however it happened. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:17, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

I found Houston to have a high Spanish speaking population, especially among service staff. Maybe Marianne had a Spanish speaking nanny. HiLo48 (talk) 02:10, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

She also had a "wasted decade" touring 1970s California. Plenty of everything down that road, I hear. Can't blame her parents or nanny for what she picked up there, it was probably Jane Fonda's fault somehow. InedibleHulk (talk) 10:28, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

why is her accent relevant? - Curious editorial bystander reading your editing comments. 2601:152:4C81:3240:BD49:E3A3:C9B7:D398 (talk) 02:31, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

The Wikipedia article under Mid-Atlantic accent includes her in the list under "Elite use". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:6000:AA00:FBB2:222:69FF:FE4C:408B (talk) 17:56, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Political positions

This is a strange article. I did not know of this person before stumbling on this article. I find the "Political positions" section much too long for someone who never seems to have held political office and who is not a key figure in politics at any level. Why does the article outline her political opinion in such detail? From what I can tell she is primarily notable for her books on spirituality. I propose we shorten this section to just the opinions that are her key opinions and those that have achieve national attention in some way. Ashmoo (talk) 07:35, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

I Agree, while the section should exist, it is far too lengthy and reads like an advertisement at times. It should be reduced and have sections combined, such as one single subsection for all her foreign policy positions. Ageofultron 17:01, 25 April 2023

I'm not sure if the section should exist or at least be the length it is given she's never held public office.The One I Left (talk) 13:31, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Most of the content is sourced to only her campaign site so I think all of that should go and only include what is supported by secondary sources, which does not appear to be much. S0091 (talk) 14:08, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

She is one of only three candidates for the democratic party running for presidency. People want to know where she stands. I know more about it than you do, because you follow main stream (corporate) media. Look deeper. She's been discussing political issues since 1992. Dig deeper... 2601:152:4C81:3240:BD49:E3A3:C9B7:D398 (talk) 02:35, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

No citations for claims of alcoholism or nervous breakdown

There are claims of a struggle with substance abuse and a nervous breakdown in the intro, but there are no references supporting the claims. In the "A Course in Miracles" section there are four citations for a quote attributed to her stating she had been "mired in a series of unhappy love affairs, alcohol and drug abuse, a nervous breakdown, and endless sessions with therapists," but none of these four citations contain the quote nor do they support claims of substance abuse or a nervous breakdown. I submit that either references need to be added to support the claims or the article needs to be adjusted to remove the claims. Cacash refund (talk) 17:54, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

When I reverted the addition of that language a few days ago, I was reverted by The One I Left, with the reasoning being that "Sourced material is in the body of the article."

Here's a link to my edit:

[3]. David O. Johnson (talk) 18:19, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

@Cacash refund it seems to be a quote from her book. See [4]. S0091 (talk) 18:20, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Looking a the sources provided in the article, the Houston Chronicle supports "nervous breakdown", the Chicago Tribune quotes her stating, "I went into therapy several times, but it rarely made an impact. I sank deeper into my own neurotic patterns, seeking relief in food, drugs, people or whatever else I could find to distract me from myself." With that, I don't think there is a valid argument there are no sources supporting these claims. She has stated so and again, the quote appears to be coming from her book but I cannot confirm outside of the Mirror article I provided above. S0091 (talk) 18:39, 8 May 2023 (UTC)