Talk:Maria Kovalevska

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 01:20, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

( Comment or view )

( Article history links:

• Nadia Smyrnytska
• Maria Kovalevska
• Maria Kalyuzhnaya

)

• ... that Ukrainian revolutionaries Nadia Smyrnytska, Maria Kovalevska and Maria Kalyuzhnaya all committed suicide in protest against the abuse of imprisoned women in Kara katorga? Source: Rudyachenko, Oleksandr (31 August 2018). "Грабовський. Із бенкету людожерності" [Grabovski. From the feast of cannibalism]. Ukrinform (in Ukrainian). Retrieved 25 January 2024.
  • Reviewed:
    1. Template:Did you know nominations/Cora Agnes Benneson (used)
    2. Template:Did you know nominations/Safe House Black History Museum (used)
    3. Template:Did you know nominations/Jenny Suo (never expires and can be used for a future DYK nomination)

Created by Grnrchst (talk). Self-nominated at 18:16, 25 January 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Nadia Smyrnytska; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• Comment: I actually created the article for Maria Kovalevska on 1 December 2023, but held off on nominating her as I thought this hook would work better as a multi-article nomination. If this is a problem for newness (I couldn't find any specifics about multi-noms in the guidelines), then I can withdraw the nomination. --Grnrchst (talk) 18:20, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
• Reviewing -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:22, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
• @DYK admins: Please advise on the December article eligibility.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:37, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
  • To be clear. Nominator is asking for permission to present Maria Kovalevska, which was created on 1 December 2023 as a featured link in a 3-article hook. Here are the newness summaries:
    • Nadia Smyrnytska 1558 characters created on Jan 25 (all good)

      I just wanted to note that 561 characters is the WP:LEAD meaning that the LEAD is more than half as long as the rest of the article. Is there any more content for the body?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:00, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

    • Maria Kalyuzhnaya 1390 1738 characters created on Jan 25 (routine expansion request all good)
    • Maria Kovalevska 1976 characters created on December 1 (seems to be quite a bit 7 weeks, not days, late)-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:25, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
      • I have expanded Maria Kalyuzhnaya's article with another sentence, per your request. This should bring it over the line. --Grnrchst (talk) 09:27, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
• QPQs require an equivalent number of articles (2 or 3 in this case, waiting on a ruling).-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:30, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
  • I'm happy to do more reviews to satisfy QPQ if that's the case. I think guidelines on multi-article nominations need to be better established, as I'm still rather confused as to how I was supposed to go about this. --Grnrchst (talk) 15:04, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
    • There are dozens of DYK subpages, so I am not sure what to say. We have a ping out to the admins, who may have some expertise. I guess I will take a few minutes bouncing around looking for guidance.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:27, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
    • Maybe the admins know where the multiarticle hook rules are. I don't see them.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:43, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
      • I asked in the talk page and found out that it is actually mentioned in WP:QPQ, I must have missed it while looking through the guidelines. I have now reviewed two other articles, in order to bring QPQ up to the line for this nomination. --Grnrchst (talk) 15:47, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

• (ec) Seven weeks late is well beyond what can be accepted via IAR. That link cannot be in bold font. On the plus side, it means that only two QPQs are required. Schwede66 15:50, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

• I've already done the other QPQs. I'd understand a late article being rejected as a standalone nomination. But as part of a multi-nomination where it was an action that these three women took together, I still think they all need to be bold. It would end up looking odd to remove the bold formatting for just one of them. --Grnrchst (talk) 15:56, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

• I think there was an ec, but the ruling is that the December article can not run as a featured (bolded) article. You will have a QPQ review in the bank for future use. I would suggest submitting an ALT hook. I realize it may be the exact same with debolding, but since you may want to rearrange or rephrase, I am asking you to formally repropose a new hook for consideration.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:45, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
  • Grnrchst, this has happened with multihook nominations in the past, when one or more of the articles have been rejected for various reasons, from age to insufficient length to excessive duplication between the nominated articles (duplicated text can only be counted toward one of the articles): the non-bold link is a way to include the article that, for whatever reason, did not qualify for DYK. It would probably look less odd if the hook were reordered so Maria Kovalevska is listed third of the three women; that decision is up to you. I do think it's better to include all three women rather than omit Kovalevska entirely; her article will get some attention due to the link. I'm sorry that things didn't work out this time for that one article. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:02, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
  • Ok, I'm not happy about it but here's an ALT with Kovalevska de-bolded and rearranged:
    • ALT1: ... that Ukrainian revolutionaries Nadia Smyrnytska, Maria Kalyuzhnaya and Maria Kovalevska all committed suicide in protest against the abuse of imprisoned women in Kara katorga? Source: Rudyachenko, Oleksandr (31 August 2018). "Грабовський. Із бенкету людожерності" [Grabovski. From the feast of cannibalism]. Ukrinform (in Ukrainian). Retrieved 25 January 2024.

Grnrchst (talk) 09:28, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

• Regarding the hook.

1. Could it be tighter: ALT2: ... that Ukrainians Nadia Smyrnytska, Maria Kalyuzhnaya and Maria Kovalevska committed suicide in protest against abuses in Kara katorga?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:35, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Since Kovalevska is no longer bolded, is her inclusion any higer priority than Nadezhda Sigida? ALT3: ... that Ukrainians Nadia Smyrnytska, Maria Kalyuzhnaya, Nadezhda Sigida and Maria Kovalevska committed suicide in protest against abuses?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:35, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

• Sigida wasn't Ukrainian, so your proposed ALT3 is just inaccurate. No issues with ALT2. --Grnrchst (talk) 16:32, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

• Also be advised that the following is redundant content:

  "In protest against the abuse of imprisoned women in Kara, she committed suicide in November 1889,[4] alongside Nadezhda Sigida and fellow Ukrainian revolutionaries Maria Kovalevska and Maria Kalyuzhna." (201 characters) in Nadia Smyrnytska

  "In November 1889, Kalyuzhnaya committed suicide by poisoning together with Sigida, Kovalevska and Smyrnytska, in protest against the abuse of women by the prison authorities." (174 characters) in Maria Kalyuzhnaya

• The character counts for newness need to be reduced. The character counts thus become 1558 and 1738 1564. However, I am not sure how to address the very puffy WP:LEAD in the Smyrnytska article.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:48, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
  • If you think the lead is puffy, it would be helpful if you could point out where and why you think that's the case. --Grnrchst (talk) 16:32, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
    • I have shortened the LEAD a bit. It is now 1504 characters. Taking a few minor details out leaves the main body reader with a feeling of learning more than the summary in the LEAD.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:02, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
• What about ALT4: ... that Ukrainians Nadia Smyrnytska, Maria Kalyuzhnaya, and Maria Kovalevska joined Nadezhda Sigida and in suicide to protest abuse?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:53, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
• I suspect this would generate more interest and attention: ALT5: ... that Ukrainians Nadia Smyrnytska, Maria Kalyuzhnaya, Maria Kovalevska and 20 other prisoners joined Nadezhda Sigida and in suicide to protest abuse? Radzy0 (talk) 23:39, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
  • The hook is supposed to reference facts in the articles.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:59, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
    • I think the hook needs to be specific about what they were protesting, it can't just vaguely say "to protest abuse", because that could mean anything. Suggesting: ALT6: ... that Ukrainians Nadia Smyrnytska, Maria Kalyuzhnaya and Maria Kovalevska joined other prisoners in committing suicide to protest against the abuse of imprisoned women in Kara katorga? --Grnrchst (talk) 13:40, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
      • As we have experienced the rules for multiple hooks are not clear. It is my understanding that you are shooting for 100 characters, plus characters for each additional featured link. Thus, I think we are shooting for 117 characters at most. ALT 6 is 183, whereas ALT 4 is 129, which is within striking distance of 117.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:18, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
        • Not sure where you're getting the 100 character limit from. WP:DYKMOS is very specific that hooks have a maximum limit of 200 characters. I don't care if ALT4 is shorter, it's lacking vital information. --Grnrchst (talk) 08:58, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
          • Not sure why 100 was in my mind. O.K. I will review ALT6.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:19, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
• Both remaining articles are sourced and neutral. As an English speaker, I have to WP:AGF on much of the sourcing.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:37, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
• You have opted not to nominate the valid picture for the main page.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:39, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
  • TonyTheTiger, has this nomination been approved? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 00:07, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
• I guess so. My last comment was kind of a question, but I can go forward and approve it as is.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:26, 2 February 2024 (UTC)