Talk:Mari, Syria

Italics

Why is the sentence in the middle of the paragraph on the 2nd Golden Age in italics? Mdotley 00:58, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

THIS ARTICLE HAS NOT FOOTNOTES. SOMEONE HAS TO DOUBLE CHECK THE INFO AND INSERT FOOTNOTES. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.86.200.65 (talk) 23:40, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Rewrite

Hello, I have rewritten this article as I think Mari is one of the most important cities of ancient Syria. I have counted on the newest sources and made sure that every sentence is referenced. When the history or the events are ambiguous or when the topic is debated, I made sure to represent all the views.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 10:11, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Mari, Syria/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: FunkMonk (talk · contribs) 20:13, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

• Hi, I will review this article soon, but may take some time due to its length. I recently read up on the ancient history of the Fertile Crescent and other regions, so I should at least have a superficial knowledge to drag on. FunkMonk (talk) 20:13, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Hey, thank you for taking the job--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 20:54, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

• Mer should be a link to something, no? Not sure why it is bolded here, bold should mainly be used in the intro, and only for alternate names of the article's subject. FunkMonk (talk) 20:17, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Sadly, Wikipedia have no article on Mer, I bolded it to make it stand but I will just link it to a non created page--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 20:54, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

• Same with other bolded terms in the article, for example "P3", etc.

Done

• "East-Semitic" is listed in the infobox as a "culture", but since it is just a language group, how does that make sense? If more actual cultures are involved, or could list those instead, or say "East-Semitic speaking groups" or some such.

I agree, east Semitic is more than a language family, the east Semites had many things in common, I linked the east Semitic to the Kish civilization as it is the term used to describe the similarities between those people--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 20:54, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Good, though you should probably use that word in the article then, "easter egg link" are discouraged. FunkMonk (talk) 21:01, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Done--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 21:07, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

• "and the dates are highly speculative and calculated using the Middle chronology." Needs citation.

Done--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 21:07, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

• I am making some edits to clarify unfamiliar terms for the average viewers. FunkMonk (talk) 19:58, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
• "The city is difficult to excavate as it is buried deep under the later layers of habitation,[4] a defensive system against floods composed of a circular embankment was unearthed,[4] in addition to a circular 6.7 m thick internal rampart to protect the city from enemies,[4] an area of 300 meters long filled with gardens and craftsmen quarters,[5] separated the outer embankment from the inner rampart which had a height of 8 to 10 meters and was strengthened by defensive towers.[5]" This is one very long sentence which could be broken up.

Done--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 20:19, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

• Some of the footnotes need citations. FunkMonk (talk) 20:02, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Done--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 20:19, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

• "named Enceinte Sacrée (the sacred inclosure)" mention that this is in French in the parenthesis.

Done--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 21:14, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

• "and the Massif Rouge" Also needs English term.

well this is its common name between archaeologists, even in English sources, I cant translate it as it is an official name, If I translate it it will be my own work, I have no source for the translation, would you like me to translate it ? --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 20:59, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

• "Ninni-Zaza, Ishtarat" These names mainly seem to be used on French sites, perhaps they have other English common names? FunkMonk (talk) 20:32, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Nini-Zaza was a Mariote deity with that name, those are the names in the English sources, I do suspect Ishtarat to be Astarte but I cant add this cause it would be an original research, all the archaeologists call it Ishtarat not Astarte--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 20:59, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

This book[1] says Ishtarat is plural of Ishtar, not sure if that makes sense. FunkMonk (talk) 21:15, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Mari had a separate temple for Ishtar and Ishtarat, so it cant be a plural, the sources agree on that here [2] and here [3], I really cant make the connection and say its a plural of Ishtar unless I have a source especially for Mari.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 21:31, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

• "and many interruptions have been presented by scholars." Is interpretations meant here?

yes I meant interpretations , my mistake, corrected--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 20:59, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

• There are still some uncommon terms and names you should link to at first mention, which are not linked at all.

can you please indicate the sections ?--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 20:59, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm not past the history section yet, so it would be there. It is place names (fe Ebla), names of peoples (Akkadians), etc. It is probably good to go through the entire article and link terms at forst occurence as you fidn them, I'm sure there are more, but it is not up to me to point out all of them, I have linked a few of them, though. FunkMonk (talk) 21:15, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

ok I will go through the article .--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 21:31, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Done all the places and people and some other concepts are now linked when they occur for the first time--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 22:35, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

• Could be nice with original dates for the pictured artefacts and ruins, to show context. FunkMonk (talk) 23:10, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Done--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 23:45, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

• "The first Shakkanakku on the Shakkanakku lists" You should probably define what Shakkanakku refers to, for example, "the first member of the Shakkanakku dynasty on the lists" or similar.

Done--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 23:45, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

• Was it called Mari all throughout its history?

Yes, in the Sumerian kings list and on the tablets found at the city and the neighboring cities such as Ebla and Alalakh--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 23:45, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

• It seems a significant number of Mari artefacts are now housed at Louvre, could be noted somewhere.

Done--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 01:02, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• You have a tendency to forget the genitive s, remember it in the future.

I shall fix this--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 16:26, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• "Afterword, Shamash-Risha-Usur (c. 760 BC)" I assume "afterwards" is meant?

I meant later as in later periods, I fixed it--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 16:26, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• A couple of notes under the "rulers" table need citations.

Done--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 19:01, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• "In addition to the Semitic deities; Ishtar the goddess of fertility,[150] Athtar,[155] and Shamash, the Sun god who was regarded among the city most important deities,[156] and believed to be all-knowing and all-seeing." I'm not sure I understand this sentence, why does it start with "In addition to the Semitic deities"? Maybe you mean "in addition, it had Semitic deities such as"?

Fixed--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 19:01, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• "doesnt believe that the Akkadians during the Lim dynasty" Wikipedia articles should not use contractions.

Fixed--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 19:01, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• I see sources in Spanish, German and French, their languages should be noted, there is a "language" parameter for this you can add.

Done--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 19:01, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• "The second kingdom's economy was based on both agriculture and trade,[4] the economy was centralized and directed through a communal organization,[4] where grains were stored in communal granaries and distributed amongst the population according to social statues,[4] the organization also controlled the animal herds in the kingdom.[4]" Long, could be split.

Done--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 19:01, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• Akkadian language seems to be linked multiple times.

Fixed--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 19:01, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• Have any of these sites received damage during the current war?

Yes, I wrote a short section about this, there isnt much information but I was able to find a source.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 19:01, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• "The Shakkanakku's kept ruling Mari until" Incorrect use of genitive s.

Fixed--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 19:01, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• The intro seems to use terms and other things that are not mentioned in the article. But there should be no unique info in the intro. A few examples, Persians are mentioned as rulers, "Entrepôt" is mentioned, Tell Hariri is not used once in the article, and so on.

Fixed--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 19:01, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• "important information's about the" wrong genitive again, and information should not be plural.

Fixed--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 19:01, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• Looking pretty spiffy now, and it's nice with the up to date stuff. Not sure if you need to cite the same article twice for a single paragraph (under Current situation), though. FunkMonk (talk) 12:34, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Fixed--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 13:11, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

• Alright, all looks good, so I'll pass this. Keep up the good work, and remember the genitive s! FunkMonk (talk) 16:51, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your review and patience about the genitive s, I guess I need to work on my grammar (never liked grammar).--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 17:05, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Recent changes

Taking this article to FA has been on my list for a while, but it will need an overhaul which I plan to start soon. One point is that too much lists, especially the last layout where each kingdom had its list of kings within its section, lower the quality of the article as it break the flow of the prose. As is customary, I have moved the kings to an article dedicated for them, which is customary for monarchs in general. This is in line with Wiki policies Embedded lists, Lists, tables and summaries and List size. Another change I made was removing the citations from photos. Generally, the photo needs to be cited within its file, unless the caption in the article is stating information not stated in the photo description (and its always better that all information be in the prose not in photos captions). The year names of Sargon do not belong in this article and are definitely out of the scope. As for photos, while important, they also need to have serve the prose and need to have enough place and not squash the text and they need to fit within their section and not push the photos in the following sections down. Therefore, choices must be made, and I removed the photo of Isqi-Mari which was pushing the table of the third kingdom down, and the seated couple was pushing into the economy section. Lastly, the citation style needs to be uniformed.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 11:55, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Please go ahead. I am jut trying to help, but I'm sure you can improve the article with dedicated work. पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 12:00, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

You have improved much पाटलिपुत्! Specially bringing all those photos to Wikipedia (I tried to get the photo of Isqi-Mari statue to no avail years ago). Not to mention the new articles about Mariote kings. The list of kings was just too big for the article (I was a beginner when I originally added it and it should have been in its own article from the beginning).--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 12:04, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

@Attar-Aram syria: Thank you Attar-Aram syria! I like to have references in photo captions, because images have much impact (often more than the prose itself) so it just feels useful (and often necessary) to back up the images and captions with references. And references on Commons don't quite work as it's very hard to follow changes there and there is not the level of scrutiny or monitoring we have on the language Wikipedias. I would be almost incapable to know (exhaustively and in a timely fashion) if one messes with my references on Commons. Cheers पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 12:17, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Google Books apocalypse

Many cites contain direct links to Google Books. Many of them no longer work. Take for example [4]. This is because Google Books is not an archive or library. It's a commercial book seller. They are not in the business of making citations available at Wikipedia, they are in the business of providing free previews solely for the purpose of prospective buyers purchasing the book. Thus, making pages not available encourages readers to purchase the book.

Instead, you will want to use a reliable site, like the non-profit library archive.org which actually exists to provide reliable long term stable links for Wikipedia. -- GreenC 16:56, 28 December 2023 (UTC)