Talk:Margaret Abbott/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Edwininlondon (talk · contribs) 07:34, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

I am happy to review this over the next few days. Edwininlondon (talk) 07:34, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for taking the review, Edwin! Feel free to comment on anything as I wish to take this a bit further than GAN to prepare it for a possible future FAC! I have tried to use all the available sources, but do let me know if you find anything else. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 08:05, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Prose

Overall good. Just a few additions would be good:

• win an Olympic event --> consider linking Olympic
  • Done.
• an official Olympics event --> first line has Olympic event, without the s. Consistency would be better I think
  • Done, made it 'Olympics' throughout
• consider adding that the 1900 games were only the second of the modern era
  • Done.
• (July 10, 1867 – April 24, 1936) --> it is unusual to provide so much detail in the lead for someone who is not the topic. I would drop it.
  • It was added in an recent edit, I think.
    • Still, it is not important enough information to be included in the lead
      • Removed (I thought I did that, but maybe I forgot) – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 17:43, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
• the lead says "without realizing that it was an official Olympics event" but the body doesn't actually say that, it can only be inferred from the fact that it wasn't labelled an Olympic event. Should we not be more explicit in the body? And likewise the lead should have the statement that she died without ever realising.
  • I think the statement from the prose: "Abbott never realized that she was the first American woman to win an Olympics event" [emphasis added] supports both those claims of the lead.
    • Possibly. Nevertheless I do think it would be better if the lead also said explicitly that she never in her life realised she won an Olympic event.
      • Added in the lead. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 17:43, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
• the lead could mention that it was the only time women's golf was featured at the Olympics until 2016
  • I think that us better suited for the legacy section, and has no direct relevance with Abbott.
    • Yes, you're right, ok
• a 1887 tournament --> she was only 9 then! Is this correct? I don't think so (Welch says she started playing in 1897)
  • Just me and my typos know how '1897' became '1887'; fixed.
• it wasn’t labeled -->avoid contractions: it was not labeled
  • Done.
• to sign-up for the event --> no hyphen I think
  • Fixed.
• She won with a score of 47 strokes --> A bit more about the event would be good: who came 2nd and 3rd? By what margin did she win? How many women competed? Is there anything else known about the course apart from the length of holes? The weather? When did she realise it was an Olympic event? I can see the source telling me never, but that is not in the article.
  • Will try. As for the fact she never realized, we have this statement from the prose: "Abbott never realized that she was the first American woman to win an Olympics event" [emphasis added]
    • • But that statement leaves open the possibility that she did realise at some point in her life that she won an Olympic event, but just never that she was the first woman to do so.
        • Adjusted the wording; hopefully it is better. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 17:43, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
    • Update: Added the runner-up and the margin, but that is all I could find to add. I think that is all what is available of this 122 year old tournament.
      • I looked in the Dutch newspaper archives from 1900 and could not find anything either.
• and tight skirts." --> and tight skirts". as per MOS:INOROUT
  • Thanks; fixed.
• Although few other tournaments had silver and bronze medals, no gold medals were awarded --> sorry, this puzzles me a bit. Are these other tournaments other Olympic events? And did they really hand out silver and bronze but no gold sometimes?
  • The sources says: "Several types of silver and bronze medals — no gold ones — were given to some of the champions of the 1900 Olympics ... The awarding of medals didn’t become an Olympic tradition until 1904." Made a few clarifications in the prose.
• The NY Times article clearly spells out many athletes were never made, which I think needs to be mentioned
  • Done.
• reported in Chicago Tribune --> reported in the Chicago Tribune
  • Done.
• the 1902 French Women's Championship --> maybe add that she stayed in France. The NY Times btw has her win a French tournament before returning to the US in 1901
  • Added and made some adjustments.
• She married the writer Finley Peter Dunne (July 10, 1867 – April 24, 1936) --> again I would drop these dates
  • Done.
• They had four children: Finley Peter Dunne Jr., Phillip Dunne, Margaret Dunne, and Leonard Dunne --> I don't think they all need to be named, just the one that is notable.
  • Done.
• destroyed by the burning of the clubhouse in 1912 --> to my foreign ears this makes it sound as if it was arson. Would something like "in the 1912 clubhouse fire" be simpler?
  • Indeed; fixed.
• Later research and legacy --> not so sure about this section header. It implies there was earlier research. Maybe just Legacy suffices
  • Done.
• researched her life --> when was this?
  • 1970s; added.
• 80-odd years after the fact ... [Abbott] herself had told us --> instead of [Abbott] I would just keep what Philip used to have a better flow: "The champion herself had told us only.."
  • Done.
    • I'm somehow not seeing this fix. Odd.
      • Done now. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 17:43, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
• In the Infobox I would just show the gold medal rather than make the user click to show
  • Done.

Sources

Looks good quality. Formatting ok. I did a spotcheck of a few (New York Times, Olympics.com,

• Welch in Olympic Review writes that in 1973 Abbott was listed as an Olympic champion. That I think should be mentioned
  • Thanks for digging up the sources; added this in the legacy section.
• she also mentions Abbott starting golf in 1897 and being a fierce competitor a year later. Also mentions a classy back swing, a knee inury. And facts from the Olympic final round. Overall, I would say quite a few more Abbott golf facts in here to make it into the article.
  • I added few more facts but have tried not to include too many. Information like rivalry between clubs, her brother, and tournaments she won during 1897-99 may be seen as trivia by few at FAC (if this article ever reaches there). We have mentions of Abbott winning/participating [for] the Hamlin prize, S.H. Graves contest, etc., in the Welch publication, but there is no evidence to judge that whether these were notable tournaments or just some local event. Few editors might question why to include tournaments in Wikipedia which are not notable enough for its own article, etc. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 17:47, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
    • OK, seems like a sound approach
• found some more sources: "Margaret Abbott Aced Team USA's First Women's Olympic Gold Medal And Didn't Know It." US Official News, 21 Mar. 2016. Gale OneFile: News, link.gale.com/apps/doc/A576227622/STND?u=wikipedia&sid=ebsco&xid=548fb187.
  • I think it is same as this, already used in the article.
• Abbott, Margaret (1878–1955). Dictionary of Women Worldwide: 25,000 Women Through the Ages ISBN: 978-0-7876-7585-1
  • That does not has much to add, it appears
• Mes recherches sur Margaret Abbott. Welch, P., Revue Olympique dec, 1982: Vol. 182. p. 752-754,
  • I think it is same as the Olympic Review source already used in the article.

Media

All looks good rightswise. Alt text ok.

I'll be happpy to review again, once you have added a bit more. Would be great if this could get to FAC eventually. Edwininlondon (talk) 22:01, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, Edwin, for your thorough review. It was much helpful. I have fixed almost everything you specified. Let me know if anything else is required. Thanks again! – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 18:11, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

OK, just the odd outstanding point, see above. Edwininlondon (talk) 17:23, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Edwin, done those. Let me know if that works. Thanks! – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 17:45, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes, all good. I now believe this article meets all the requirements for GA. Great work! Edwininlondon (talk) 21:08, 12 June 2022 (UTC)