Talk:Manipuri dance

Lists

This article is on the dance form - hence moving the list of exponents/awardees here. Probably best to move them to a new list article. Around The Globe^{सत्यमेव जयते} 09:41, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Extended content

Prominent Artists and SNA Awardees Krishna and Radha and her consorts A Manipuri Dancer in traditional Krishna attire Amubi Singh 1956 Haobam Atomba Singh 1958 T. Amudon Sharma 1961 Atombapu Sharma 1963 Bipin Singh 1965 Ojha Thangjam Chaoba Singh 1969 Kshetri Tombi Devi 1972 L. Koireng Singh 1973 L. Ibemhal Devi 1974 Rajani Maibi 1975 Ojha Maibam Ibungohal Singh 1976 Nayana Susheel Jhaveri 1977 L. Thouranishabi Devi 1980 L. Tombi Devi 1982 Khaidem Lokeshwar Singh 1985 Tarun Kumar Singh 1987 Ibopishak Sharma 1988 Th. Babu Singh 1990 H. Ngangbi Devi 1993 T. Nadia Singh 1994 L. Thambalangoubi Devi 1995 Darshana Jhaveri 1996 Samanduram Tondon Devi 1997 N. Madhabi Devi 1998 Sorokhaibam Naran Singh 1999-2000 Charu Sija Mathur 2001 K. Ongbi Leipaklotpi Devi 2002 Thiyam Suryamukhi Devi 2003 Kalavati Devi 2003 K. Radhamohon Sharma 2005 L. Bino Devi 2009 Phanjoubam Iboton Singh 2010

Deletion of images and sourced content

@2a02:c7d:93ee:6f00:*: Please see wikipedia's content policies. Why are you deleting relevant images and content sourced from WP:RS? Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 19:27, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Name change

@Ish ishwar: Please do not edit war with @Filpro over article title, widespread name change and article space move. Please explain the name change, and provide WP:RS supporting the change. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 23:11, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi. The reasons for why the Meiteis should be referred to as Meitei instead of Manipuri are detailed here: Talk:Meitei_language#Page_move. The scholarly sources for the language are S Chelliah and Ethnologue.

As for this article, I'm actually confused about it. What is the topic? Is it the dance of the people of Manipuri state? Or, is it the dance of the ethnic Meiteis? If it's about Meitei dance, then the article should be named Meitei dance. If not, then Manipuri dance is appropriate. The article does not make clear to what extent the dance forms of Manipuri are similar to or different from the dance forms of the Meitei folks. Incidentally, this shows why it's generally a bad idea to use the same term that points to both to a regionally-defined referent as well as a culturally-defined referent. The confusion between Manipuri = 'of Manipur' and Manipuri = 'of Meitei' as well as Manipuri = 'of Bishnupriya Manipuri' is found throughout english wikipedia and wiki commons. (And, for these reason, I can't actually clear up many articles and categories.) – ishwar  (speak) 02:52, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Of the 3 sources I can look at through google books – Doshi (1989) and Massey (2004) seem to use the term Meit(h)ei to refer to Meitei dance but Manipuri to refer to dances of Manipuri whether Meitei or not. I'm less sure about Doshi (1989) since it's not very searchable and doesn't give me much context to read. It might be that Doshi uses Meitei = 'of Meitei' as well as both Manipuri = 'of Meitei' and Manipuri = 'of Manipur'. The reference Narayan (2011) uses both Manipuri and Meiti [sic]. It's not clear if they mean different things since I don't think Narayan clearly mentions to any Manipuri dance that isn't Meitei dance. – ishwar  (speak) 03:08, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

@Ish ishwar: Please read and respect WP:COMMONNAME guidelines. Instead of sharing your personal opinions / prejudices / wisdom / WP:OR, please provide WP:RS that confirm that the most common name in literature for the classical dance of Manipur is Meitei dance, and not Manipuri dance. You need to re-read Doshi, Massey and Narayan, as you seem to have misread them. If you really believe that they do not use the phrase "Manipuri dance", do provide a page number. The numerous sources cited in the article support the appropriate title for this article should be "Manipuri dance". Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 03:19, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

You haven't answered my question above: what's this article about? This answer concerns the name. The most 'appropriate title for this article' depends on this answer. I can't respond without knowing this. – ishwar  (speak) 03:51, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

If you haven't read the article, you shouldn't be changing or edit warring over the name. If you have read it, it should be obvious that the article is about the Indian classical dance that reliable sources call "Manipuri dance". Remember, wikipedia articles such as this one are not a personal blog, and article talk pages are not a forum. Please see WP:TALK and WP:TPNO guidelines. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 03:58, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

I read the article, but it's unclear. It should be obvious, yes. But, it's not. I guess you're misunderstanding? The term Manipuri has two different meanings. If you don't disambiguate the referent, then the referent is still ambiguous. So, to be clear, I'm asking whether the article is about the dance forms of Manipur state or about the dance forms of Meitei peoples. At times the article seems to be about only Meitei dance and at other times about dance in Manipur as a region. It's possible that the sources don't disambiguate, of course. If the article is only about Meitei dance, then it should be named Meitei dance. If there isn't any published information about Kuki or Naga, etc dance forms in Manipur, then there may be nothing to note about non-Meitei Manipur dance. But, at the very least, the editors of this article should make clear that only Meitei dance is being discussed here.

Also, I'll point to you some other Wikipedia guidelines that you may not be aware of: (a) WP:ETHNICGROUP, (b) WP:PRECISE. Also, possibly: (c) WP:NPOVTITLE.

Finally, I'll have you note that wikipedia isn't a blog for your personal points of view and talk pages shouldn't be used as a forum for them. (If you're unclear, I'll refer you to WP:TPNO and WP:TALK.) Thanks. – ishwar  (speak) 04:40, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

@Ish_ishwar: What is not obvious about "is one of the major Indian classical dance forms" and "The roots of Manipuri dance, as with all classical Indian dances, is..." etc? The WP:ETHNICGROUP, WP:PRECISE and WP:NPOVTITLE do not apply here. You have yet to offer reliable source(s) using the term "Meitei dance" to be the most common name for classical Indian dance from Manipur. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 04:53, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Both "is one of the major Indian classical dance forms" and "The roots of Manipuri dance, as with all classical Indian dances, is the ancient Hindu Sanskrit text Natya Shastra" don't actually clarify whether the topic about dance of the Meiteis or about dance of the all Manipur peoples including both Meitei and non-Meitei groups. Those two quotes merely say that Manipuri dance is Indian, a classic dance form, a major dance form, and is inspired from a Sanskrit source. This says nothing about who are doing the dance historically and nowadays and what ethnic group this dance style (or styles) originated from. Right? This is a problem with the article.

Although you are not directly answering the question here, your mention of 'classical Indian dance from Manipur' seems to suggest that the term Manipuri is being defined regionally. Ok, good. I actually don't think that Manipuri dance should be used to refer to Meitei dance. I think Manipuri dance should refer to Manipur dance and Meitei dance should refer to Meitei dance. But, right now, the article is using the term Manipuri dance and seemingly only mentioning dance forms from Meitei culture. That's problematic since there are other (indigenous, I think) cultures in Manipur beside Meitei culture. For example, although I'm not an expert in dance in any way, I could easily find the book Women of Manipur by GK Ghosh & S Ghosh, which mentions other dance and music culture from other non-Meitei Kuki and Naga groups in Manipuri. This article doesn't mention that these other people exist.

WP:ETHNICGROUP, and WP:NPOVTITLE may or may not apply. But, we can only tell when the article is cleared up. Of course, WP:PRECISE does apply for the reasons stated above. – ishwar  (speak) 05:24, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

@Ish ishwar: This article is about classical Indian dance, as per the cited sources. It is not about "other Meitei dance", music culture, non-Meitei Kuki, Naga, Meitei or non-Meitei culture. You can create new articles dedicated to these, if the articles don't exist and if they are notable topics. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 06:02, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

I see. I didn't know that classical Indian was distinct from other kinds of dance, which shows how much I know about dance. (My understanding depended on reading the Indian classical dance article, which I didn't read.) So, it's about the classical dance from Manipur originating from Meiteis (but perhaps performed by non-Meitei folks as well?) I thought it might be that Meitei dance just happened to be 'classical' for some reason. There's presumably other non-classical Manipuri dance forms as well. The most precise article name would be something like Manipuri classical dance, but as there's no other page on this needing disambiguation, Wikipedia has gotten by with just Manipuri dance. Since Manipuri has a regional instead of ethnic definition here, there's no objection from me. My page move was in error. Thanks – ishwar  (speak) 06:51, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

There's actually a page on a non-classical Manipuri Meitei dance: Thabal chongba. Just an FYI. – ishwar  (speak) 15:52, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

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Splitting the article

This article was earlier about the classical Manipuri Rasa lila, which deserves its own separate article as per WP:Notability. But I don't know why this article was changed into an article about the different dance styles of Manipur. I am splitting this article into Manipuri Rasa Leela and Dances of Manipur (describing the different dance styles). The current name "Manipuri Dance" will be either redirected to Rasa Leela (WP:Common name) or turned into a disambiguation page..245CMR.•^👥📜 10:49, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 6 February 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Uncontested RM (closed by non-admin page mover) ❯❯❯ Raydann^(Talk) 18:42, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

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Manipuri Raas Leela → Manipuri dance – WP:COMMONNAME. Dance is overwhelmingly known under original article name, see search results in English, Britannica, and Indian government, use . Disambiguate already exists with Dances of Manipur. Gryffindor (talk) 19:57, 6 February 2024 (UTC) — Relisting.  ASUKITE 17:45, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject India has been notified of this discussion. ASUKITE 17:45, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Dance has been notified of this discussion. ASUKITE 17:45, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Relisting comment: to generate more participation. Closer: the discussion above from 2016 may be relevant nvm, that was meitei vs manipuri18:10, 16 February 2024 (UTC) ASUKITE 17:45, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

• Agree As per Common name.

Redtigerxyz ^Talk 15:57, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

G. K

The dance from of Manipur 103.70.165.228 (talk) 07:49, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

The dance from of Manipur 103.70.165.228 (talk) 07:50, 27 September 2024 (UTC)