Talk:Manhattan Beach, California

Early Inhabitants

On 092508 I removed the entire section, "Early inhabitants, Spanish discovery and settlement", because it was plagiarized and an explicit copyright violation.

For example, the opening paragraph was as follows: "In 1837, Antonio Ygnacio Avila received a land grant from Mexico for Rancho Sausal Redondo consisting of 22,500 acres. What is now Manhattan Beach was part of Rancho Sausal Redondo. The Rancho was sold to Sir Robert Burnett who used the land for sheep and cattle raising. In 1873, Sir Robert Burnett leased the land to Daniel Freeman and returned to his native Scotland. Freeman moved to the ranch with his family and increased the stock plus planted citrus trees. The 1875 drought ruined the livestock’s industry and he turned to dry farming. Freeman purchased the land in the 1880s but fell into financial difficulties and sold off the land." This is lifted word-for-word from the Manhattan Beach Historical Society's website, which bears the authoriship claim of Bonnie Beckerson and an explicit copyright claim. See <http://history90266.org/HistoryMB.htm>.

Therefore, this entire section must be rewritten and, until then, may not be included.

For the time being, I have inserted a bare reference in the article to the above-referenced website. Oconnell usa (talk) 15:48, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Early Development

This section needs a complete rewrite. It is filled with non-sequiturs and lacks cites. Hopefully a knowledgable historian who is a skillful writer will complete this task. If not, I'll try to do it by Spring, 2009. Oconnell usa (talk) 23:38, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Whoever authored this article should edit the POV referencing that the land grants were not title to the land....and in 1784, this area was part of the original Rancho San Pedro that was parcelled off later...DonDeigo 16:48, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Newspapers

On 122708 in the main article, I renamed this from "Media" to "Newspapaers", for obvious reasons. In addition, I deleted the reference ot the LA Times, since its inclusion would also require the inclusion of other major municipal newspapers (the Daily Journal) and even USA Today. Finally, I deleted the reference to the Manhattan Beach Sun because, as a resident, I've never ever seen it, and my online search showed nothing. Oconnell usa (talk)

Notable Residents

On the basis of the comments, below, and in accordance with Wiki guidelines, I am removing the section. Oconnell usa (talk) 23:38, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

We should discuss whether this entire section is appropriate and accurate, or whether it should be deleted. As to the question of appropriate: this is an article about the City and not its residents, so perhaps a list of its residents is not encyclopedic. As to the accuracy, the vast majority of the named celebrities (athletes and entertainers) are _not_ residents, for the simple reason that residents are taxed by the State of California on their worldwide income. That is the reason that celebrities relocate to Florida (for example), because it has no state income tax. At most, such celebrities own a house in M.B., but they do not reside there. To go one step further, however, such celebrities do not in fact own a house there: almost all will own such properties through single-purpose limited liability companies. To summarize: with all of the inaccuracies and irrevancies in this section, should it be deleted? Oconnell usa (talk) 22:40, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Does Shaq still live in Manhattan Beach? I'm pretty sure that he moved to Bel-Air a few years ago...

Also, I know that Tiger Woods used to live in MB, but I don't know about that anymore, especially since he just purchased a large home in Florida.

Any source on Spears? Cause I've never heard that....

Generally, I don't add people to the list unless I read them connected to MB in a newspaper. Let's try to keep this accurate. Original user id lost in editing.

What are the sources for this list of notable residents? I live in MB and have worked with several people on the list who absolutely do NOT live there.PatrickWB 02:08, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Lets put the notable residents back up. I don't appreciate Oconnel coming in here and ruining the page that I worked so hard to maintain over the last 3 years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Evanthomas1 (talk • contribs) 06:28, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree that we should source the names...sources I've used are generally newspaper articles, LA Times Hot Property section, etc... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mbmike (talk • contribs) 05:55, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

MBmike

Me and my friend are going to add a lot of content to the History section and other parts of this page. Mike, what is your last name? i might possibly know you. its a small town —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Evanthomas1 (talk • contribs) .

Early Development

In 1863 a Scottish immigrant, Sir Robert Burnett, purchased Rancho Sausal Redondo and Rancho Aguaje De Centinela from Avila's heirs for $33,000. Ten years later in 1873, Burnett decided to leave the California sunshine and head back for Scotland. He found Canadian Daniel Freeman to watch over the ranch and they agreed to a lease for the ranch. Freeman moved his wife and three children onto the ranch and started producing various crops. On May 4th, 1885 Freeman bought the ranch from Burnett for $140,000. TBC Evan

Original Spanish Land Grant, 1784

See [[1]] DonDeigo 19:37, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

note: I changed the copyright violation in the above message to a link to the original text. ^BlankVerse 00:43, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Original Spanish Land Grant, 1784

Ive edited this section accordingly, and the official ownership map of Rancho San Pedro, with links for citation is attached and referenced in the notes section..., and a portion of South Bay history reference; Maureen Megowan; has agreed to update her copyrighted version due to the proof from the Cal State Dominguez historical archives ( see links)....what you need to do is stop the POV in reference to not having title to the land....you should read some archive literature and see the struggles these folks had over these lands from day one....i.e., mission land politics vs ranchos, Californio / Mexican, Americans, etc.... DonDeigo 21:38, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

No copyright violation...these facts are stated in the State of California's museums sections under Spanish and Mexican land grants...the Dominguez rancho article has information, but not all the info...you attempt to trivalize the organizational structure of the Spaniards who in fact were granted the Rancho's, while the Missions still had the remainder of lands not identified through grants. The missions allowed the farming that you alude too.... and for your info, a grant was in fact "Title to the land"....DonDeigo 15:30, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Seal manhattan beach ca.png

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BetacommandBot (talk) 20:36, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Trivia

As of the end of 2008, I am removing the Trivia section from the article, per Wiki guidelines. However, I am including the data here, with the hope that another editor will rewrite much of this information in the relevant sections of the main article (e.g. a separate section or subsection on the MN Open. Oconnell usa (talk) 00:40, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

• Scenes from the 1983 Taylor Hackford film Against All Odds were filmed along the strand and beach.
• Filming location for Weeds.
• Quentin Tarantino worked at a video rental store in Manhattan Beach before becoming a director.
• Establishing shots of the TV show Hannah Montana are filmed at Mira Costa High School.
• The Harvey Wallbanger cocktail was invented in the 1960s in El Porto at the current location of Sharkeez bar and grill.
• Film location of Point Break (1991). In the movie, Keanu Reeves buys his surfboard from a shop located on the Manhattan Beach pier.
• Film location of Starsky and Hutch (2004). In the movie, Starsky (Ben Stiller), can be seen stretching under the pier.
• Film location of Jerry Maguire (1996). In the movie, Dorothy's (Rene Zellwegger) house is in the Tree Section.
• Film location of Tequila Sunrise (1988). Mel Gibson's character lives on the beach near the pier.
• The name of present day Manhattan Beach was decided by a coin-flip in 1902 between George Peck (who branded his property Manhattan after his hometown in New York) and John Merrell (who named his property Shore Acres)
• Manhattan Beach has been nicknamed the "Pearl of the South Bay" for its beauty and desirability. The city motto, though seldom referenced, is "Progressius, Progressius, Progressius."
• Much of the sand on Waikīkī Beach was purchased by developers from Hawaiʻi in the late 1920s, who negotiated a deal with the Kuhn Brothers Construction Company to ship the city's sand across the Pacific from Manhattan Beach to Waikiki Beach for over 10 years. The only remaining sand that resembles Manhattan Beach's original landscape can be found at Sand Dune Park.
• Home to the filming of some of The CW/Ex-UPN series Veronica Mars
• Home to the filming of such fictional shows as the Fox Network series The O.C. and the CBS series CSI:Miami
• Film and real life location of George Jung of Blow fame.
• Was home to the Metlox Pottery company, and now has a shopping and restaurant plaza built on the old factory site.
• The Association of Volleyball Professionals tournament in Manhattan Beach is known as "The Wimbledon of Beach Volleyball." The names of the tournament champions are inscribed in plaques along Manhattan Beach Pier. This event usually takes place in August and is aired on NBC.
• Mentioned in the Beach Boys' song "Surfin' USA."
• Professional wrestler John Morrison claimed in a promo that he was awarded the key to the city of Manhattan Beach for surfing naked.

So retitle the section "In Film and TV" or "In popular culture". I think the information make the article and the encyclopedia better, and I think the listing method is useful. Writing it out in paragraphs is going to make it much less accesible. This isn't random trivia that's trivial, it's a listing of notable filmography and events from the area. The ones that aren't appropriate should be moved, merged, or redacted, rather than removing all of it. That's my opinion anyway. ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:37, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Child f Midnight, The trivia is going back up because it is certainly interesting and 100% correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.185.210.222 (talk) 21:23, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Collaborators Wanted

If any editors would like to collaborate on improving this article, please leave a message here, with a time when you'll be online, and we'll coordinate then. Oconnell usa (talk) 08:40, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

I have been a lifelong resident of this beautiful city. I'd like to help with the history or any other relevant topic. (AdamJP (talk) 04:27, 28 April 2009 (UTC))

Bah, sorry, I should have posted my comment here. Anywho, I can see if there is an uncopyrighted map available from city hall if that could help. Also, I have a question about the "politics" section; are all the results of all propositions going to be listed? Eisande (talk) 04:26, 8 January 2009 (UTC)Mike

Thanks for the help. And yes, I too think that we should delete the irrelevant politics stuff. Oconnell usa (talk) 04:47, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Neighborhoods

As of 122908, I am working to define the neighborhood boundaries and characteristics of the many neightborhoods in MB. I have included cites to the main sources. For historical purpses, another cite is http://www.90266realestate.com -- I am also working to obtain a non-copyrighted map to include in the article. Oconnell usa (talk) 19:17, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Sir, do you think that some might see the adding of all the "This is known to realtors as Area 42" is really necessary? Could it not be construed as self serving if in fact you are in the real estate business? I think the addition of a non copy righted map would be great and I might be able to help with that.Eisande (talk) 04:22, 8 January 2009 (UTC)Mike (eisande)

Re the Manhattan Beach map project, no, I'm not in real estate -- I've lived here almost 20 years and still don't know (e.g.) the location of the Gas Lamp Neighborhood. I inserted the Area 41 etc info, because the MLS has defined these boundaries. If you can find a non-cr map of the neighborhoods, great. Alternatively, find a cite to the actual boundaries, and we can create our own map. I understand from the City Clerk that the Council has not defined any of the boundaries (but it did rename MB North). Oconnell usa (talk) 04:46, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

yeah, the Gas Lamp neighborhood is kind of arbitrary....like why does 31st St have gas lamps but no other streets in the area until 24th St? I will go over to city hall and ask (I work in a different dept for city of MB). The whole "MB North" was a fiasco in my opinion, but..we are here to make a good objective wiki article and no one cares about my opinion! I'll get back to you next week on it, nice to talk! Eisande (talk) 05:02, 9 January 2009 (UTC)Mike

If I'm not mistaken, the Gas Lamp Section is called, at least by local residents, the "Gas Light" Section. Also, the 500-block of 23rd Street, where Jerry Maguire was filmed, is in the Gaslight Section, not the Sand Section as outlined in the article. Anyway, just wanted to add that. I was born and raised on 23rd Street and lived there for 37 years :-) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.250.48.58 (talk) 01:43, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Oconnel USA

I, along with other wikipediers are not happy with the rewriting of our beloved Manhattan Beach page. I've been contributing to this page for years now and Oconnel has come in here and undone everything MBMike and I have done. I was born and raised here and I do not appreciate some realtor from the East Coast editing the page so that potential out of town buyers will like what they see when researching MB. No one cares about all of these arbitrary neighborhoods. And if you don't know where the gas lamp section is, then you obviously are not a local. Where did this early history of MB go? Lets wax this clown and retake the MB page. Get realtors trying to better their business off of wikipedia. Its not our fault you chose to go into realestate and now that the market has crashed, your screwed!! haha get a real job and stop using wikipedia as a tool to try to make a buck. And go back to the east coast you barney.

What the heck happened to the page? This reads like some realtor's ad. Sheesh!

Propostions

Can someone explain the criteria for including propositions and their associated data?Eisande (talk) 04:21, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Dispute over article versions

Here is the diff for comparison of the two article versions [2]. I think the main difference is the current version breaks Manhattan Beach down into sections and discusses each one and the removal of teh extensive notable resident section.ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:53, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

city history

why does the article only have development history while city history is left up to a link to the historical society? why can't the article have the entire city history? I find that suitable for such an article. (AdamJP (talk) 04:40, 28 April 2009 (UTC))

Neighborhoods:Removing-Merging-Improving the Section Discussion

I'm thinking about removing the 'neighborhoods' section, or at least making it more concise. The list of neighborhoods is pointless and takes up a lot of space. The information it provides is useless. Discuss whether this should be removed or not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Evanthomas1 (talk • contribs) 05:47, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

I'd suggest that it be incorporated or meshed into the Locale section. --Funandtrvl (talk) 22:30, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

I notice this section has no references, while the balance of the article is very well referenced. Portions of this section appear to be written as promotional material. I agree with Evanthomas that it should be removed and/or, as Funandtrvl notes, be merged into Locale. Whether the section remains or is merged, it needs references to reliable sources and portions need to be rewritten IMHO, particularly the sub-section titled "East Manhattan Beach." Geoff ^{Who, me?} 01:24, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi Geoff - I discussed the "East Manhattan Beach" constant edits with you a while back, and appreciate your diligence at watching those disruptions. It seems that they got it back in there again and someone else tried editing it to make it sound better - but, there really is no "East" side of town, other than physically that is. The town has an area of less than 4 miles. Wealthier residents tend to live in the western part, of course, as beach property is much more expensive, but there is no truly notable cultural difference between the different parts of town. The poster likes to include a mention of a well-known band "Electric Putting Partner," which doesn't even seem to exist and really seems like someone's in-joke, as does this whole section, which includes mentions of gang activity, which is virtually non-existent throughout the beach towns here. With my edit I also restored the "notable residents" section which was discussed here earlier, but which someone else saw fit to remove regardless of those discussions. 71.130.194.188 (talk) 09:52, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Hello back! It seems to me that what is needed to make this article the best it can be is finding and citing verifiable, third-party references and avoiding the use of original research. Hopefully, the person(s) posting the "East Mahattan Beach" information will join the larger discussion of whether the neighborhoods section should be eliminated entirely or whether its issues can be resolved. It seems to me that the main issue surrounds the lack of good references for those portions of the article. Geoff ^{Who, me?} 15:43, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

I've posted a note today on 132.241.135.161's talk page asking that they join this discussion in light of their re-addition of the "East Manhattan Beach" section. Geoff ^{Who, me?} 00:50, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Notable residents (continued)

I've marked the notable residents section as needing references. After checking the first five or six names on the list, there isn't even a mention of Manhattan Beach in their respective articles. In fact, Category:People from Manhattan Beach, California only has 9 names in it. This shouldn't be a phone directory list. Unless citations can be added to the names on the list, they need to be removed. --Funandtrvl (talk) 22:41, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

introduction

At present, the introduction reads as if it were intended for real estate speculators. It goes into too much detail about various topics, especially the property valuations. I've tried to initiate discussion of this issue with Uclaby7 (talk) and Solidinformation (talk), but their only responses so far have been reverts.

According to Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section, the lead section of a Wikipedia article is supposed to summarize the important aspects of the topic. The article already has sections which go into detail about the city's educational opportunities and high cost of real estate, so the supporting facts should go there.

Like most Wikipedia articles, this one is a collaboration. If other editors feel these details belong in the introduction, I'd like to know why. Please discuss below.—Stepheng3 (talk) 06:15, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

@Stepheng3: I have to agree with you 100% and your edits were proper. @Solidinformation: as well as @Uclaby7: ONLY has edited this page, nothing more. In addition the ONLY contributions made have been related to the "values" of the area, this to me is a WP:COI and I would support you if you care to take this to a admin board. I will do a warning to each of these users today and I suggest that you revert to [here] as that is the proper format and even a little excessive but someone needs to patrol the edits of the two users mentioned above for conflict of interest. talk→ WPPilot  17:00, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

I was hoping for some communication from the SPAs about what they were trying to accomplish with the reverts. But if a block is the only way to get their attention, then that might be a good thing.—Stepheng3 (talk) 02:48, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:52, 15 January 2018 (UTC)