Talk:Mangosuthu Buthelezi

Untitled

Buthelezi is a very controversial figure, and yet this article is a puff piece that glosses over a number of issues. For example, there is no mention of pre-election Inkatha violence, the corruption scandal that led to his resignation from Home Affairs, his tensions with Gavin Woods, or his attempt to shred all copies of the "we must treat Buthelezi as the leader of a political party and not the political party itself" memo. Until these (and other) issues are addressed, this cannot be considered a quality article. CarolinianJeff 09:03, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

It is in fact horrifically biased. Buthelezi earned the nickname "Butcherlezi" with due reason, he was a leading cause of instability in the Natal area before the advent of a democratic dispensation in South Africa. He was regarded rightfully as a sellout by radicals and progressives in South Africa (you could loosely term them "struggle" people), and was despised on a level equal to the oppressive white regime.

One could say with equal validity that he was labeled a "sellout" by the radicals, communists and necklacers of the violent-revolution camp: Mugabe's kindred spirits. Solicitr (talk) 03:29, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

This article raising issues of Buthelezi being implicated in corruption is liberous as Buthelezi was never implicated in any corruption scandal which led to his resignation from Home Affairs. Indeed the Harms Commission focussed on other political leaders, not Buthelezi. Buthelezi did not resign from Home Affairs, but after the 1999 elections did not accept the offer of Deputy President and moved to the opposition benches. Arieshoosen —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arieshoosen (talk • contribs) 09:38, 11 March 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arieshoosen (talk • contribs)

Marriage section

Tried cleaning up the bad formatting here. However text says that he had three sons and four daughters, but there are four sons listed. Presumably one of them is a grandchild, but impossible to figure out from the text. Please investigate and edit. Geira (talk) 09:22, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Older brother

I've added a "citation needed" tag to the statement about his brother Mceleli - as well as being worthy of elaboration, without some supporting evidence it's pretty libellous. If nobody's provided any evidence within the next few days, I'm going to delete it ~dom Kaos~ (talk) 15:39, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

No comments - removed ~dom Kaos~ (talk) 17:33, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

City University Los Angeles

I am removing this, as it was 'awarded' by a diploma mill accredited by the fake Washitaw Nation. See its own website, [1], and [2] and "Association+of+Accredited+Private+Schools"+Washitaw&hl=en&ei=Q_BeTI3qCYaw4QbZ4oyfDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22Association%20of%20Accredited%20Private%20Schools%22%20Washitaw&f=false Dougweller (talk) 18:02, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Untitled

Hey, can someone tell me why his use of militia battalions against ANC members to aid the apartheid is left out of this? I mean it's pretty well established that his militants killed thousands pre-election. I'm currently working from secondary sources but I'm fairly sure this is uncontentious to anyone but his supporters. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.92.228.28 (talk) 04:46, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

If you have sources, please do go ahead and add that information. Because this is a biography of a living person, we do have to be particularly careful about making sure that all contentious information is well-sourced. You may also want to look at the IFP article to see if there's anything useful there, and if there isn't, you could add it as well. - htonl (talk) 05:31, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Titles From Birth

As far as I understand Zulu (Nguni) customs, the only title he had from Birth is that of "uMntwana wakwa Phindangene", the other two were earned after a while, i.e. His Brother could also be (infact more entitled to) "iNkosi yakwaButhelezi" , and the "Traditional Prime Minister" title is also not necessarily a Birth right. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Imbabazane (talk • contribs) 09:13, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Gatsha?

In the past he was often referred to as "Gatsha Buthelezi" in the media, but this is not mentioned in the article. I do not know enough about the Zulu traditions/conventions about personal names. Most of the sources I have found use it as a middle name, not a "former" name. This needs to be explained properly. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 06:35, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

His full name is Mangosuthu Gatja or Gatsha Buthelezi, His chieftain name or Honorific is Inkosi uPhindangene, his praise from his surname is Shenge Bobbyshabangu _talk 20:55, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

I seem to recall from a radio interview on 702 decades ago, that he asked the host not to call him Gatsha, or a host referred to him by that name and was corrected. Park3r (talk) 00:48, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Assessment comment

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Buthelezi is a very controversial figure, and yet this article is a puff piece that glosses over a number of issues. For example, there is no mention of pre-election Inkatha violence, the corruption scandal that led to his resignation from Home Affairs, his tensions with Gavin Woods, or his attempt to shred all copies of the "we must treat Buthelezi as the leader of a political party and not the political party itself" memo. Until these (and other) issues are addressed, this cannot be considered a quality article CarolinianJeff 11:54, 15 December 2006 (UTC) This article is liberous as Buthelezi was never implicated in any corruption scandal which led to his resignation from Home Affairs. Indeed the Harms Commission focussed on other political leaders, not Buthelezi. Buthelezi did not resign from Home Affairs, but after the 1999 elections did not accept the offer of Deputy President and move to the opposition benches. Arieshoosen —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arieshoosen (talk • contribs) 09:38, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Last edited at 09:39, 11 March 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 22:58, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Mangosuthu Buthelezi SONA 2014.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:09, 25 May 2019 (UTC) what was the reason to delete the image? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.182.122 (talk) 20:01, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Error or uncommon local usage

“part of the Buthelezi clan praises.” This is either a misprint or carries some special meaning peculiar to South Africa. The reference given does not explain it. Either way, it needs to be amended. 80.229.167.229 (talk) 23:15, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Lede length

There was a tag added by an editor about the length of the lede, but it appears as if there is no discussion. I suppose it could be condensed, but he had a long and complicated career, and I don't see anything egregiously out of place. Park3r (talk) 00:51, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Re-assessment post-death

Now that the subject of the article has died, any potentially weaselly statements to avoid falling afoul of WP:BLP should be examined. I'm not suggesting we turn the article into a hatchet job, or violate any policies, but I do feel like his role in the political violence in the 80's and 90's needs to be more fully explored (also bearing in mind that many sources would have a pro-ANC bent). Park3r (talk) 23:53, 5 October 2023 (UTC)