Talk:Mandaic language

Western Aramaic and revert by Mcvti

If Häberl mentions Western Aramaic elements in Mandaic, I am fine with reverting my last edit, but there was no need to also revert the two preceding ones! There should be some information about these elements in this article though, obviously; if they were there, I would most likely not have removed the section I did remove in good faith. Unfortunately, I currently have no time to access the books on Mandaic in the library, so I would appreciate if Mcvti shared their knowledge with future readers. --89.204.154.253 (talk) 11:55, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Something went wrong with Twinkle there since I meant to revert only your last edit regarding Western Aramaic influence on Mandaic. I have added the sources from Charles Häberl regarding the languages that influenced Mandaic. Mcvti (talk) 14:56, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Something went wrong here, too. I somehow forgot about the passage mentioning the influence of Samaritan and Jewish Palestinian Aramaic before I wrote the summary preceding your revert (obviously); sorry about that. Thank you for your recent improvements and generally for your work on this article! I shall take a look at the references as soon as I will find the time to do so, looking forward especially to the one on Hebraisms. (I do have some knowledge about Aramaic [mostly Jewish dialects and Syriac] but very little about Mandaic as of yet, a problem that shall be dealt with in the [hopefully near] future. I thought Mandaic had hardly ant Greek, Latin, or Hebrew elements and lacked the Western Aramaic influences one would expect from the language of a group coming from Israel/Palestine; apparently, I was misinformed.) --89.204.154.253 (talk) 15:55, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

glad to help, cheers Mcvti (talk) 22:39, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

I watched Häberl on Hebraisms, and he addresses the problem behind the edit you reverted very well.

Nevertheless, I still am not sure about the section I had blanked. Why is CPA in there? I do not even believe the section to be necessary since all the other links are already to be found above it (including dialects one would rather expect in this section, namely JBA and Syriac). I will not erase it again but would appreciate a comment. --89.204.154.140 (talk) 11:22, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

CPA is closely related to JPA and SA and although used in centuries after the Mandaeans left the Jordan valley, it is an important Western Aramaic dialect that preserved early Hebrew loan words into Western Aramaic similar to Hebraisms in Mandaic. However, if you feel the link between Mandaic and CPA is not strong enough to warrant its mention, I would not insist on keeping it. The other languages in the section were there before I added Häberl's sources. Mcvti (talk) 17:08, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Even though I am not too familiar with CPA, I am aware of it being closely related to the other two dialects and preserving Hebraisms. The problem I see is that the connection is not made visible to the reader. If scholars draw a link or a parenthesis mentions the similarity as you do, fine (unless the latter is considered original research and thus forbidden). --89.204.153.186 (talk) 17:56, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

From WP:MOSLAYOUT "One purpose of "See also" links is to enable readers to explore tangentially related topics." Since CPA is a Western Aramaic language and Mandaic has Western Aramaic influence, a reader may be interested in looking into CPA. But again, I do not insist on keeping it. Mcvti (talk) 18:22, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

I think the paragraph about the languages that influenced Mandaic should be more precise, though. Besides some information about western and eastern elements (among other things), Burtea (HSK 36, to which Häberl contributed, too) mentions Greek as a language that had little influence on Mandaic, and I think Nöldeke wrote something like that, too. (The article currently just mentions influence without specifying.) I think I also read that later Mandaic (not yet Neo-Mandaic) also has Arabic elements. Unfortunately, Mcvti is unlikely to contribute in the near future, see their talk page. As mentioned above, I am no expert, but I may add a bit of information (from the works just mentioned) when I shall find the time to look at the books again. --89.204.153.46 (talk) 22:15, 12 June 2022 (UTC)