Talk:Malacca Sultanate

Need to rewrite early history

The early history of the Sultanate here is poor, giving information which may not be very accurate or even true. There are other sources, and should be added so that a better picture can be presented. There are a lot of the history which are uncertain (for example how many rulers they are - different sources give different number and names), and the article should not present them as clear facts. Hzh (talk) 00:32, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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Dubious date

Where is the source for 1262 as the date for Malacca's founding? The source cites The Malay Annal (Sulalatus Salatin), but it doesn't look true. There are a lot of dubious stuff in this article. Hzh (talk) 10:26, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

After looking into it, it appears that scholars have debated the question of Malacca's founding for a long time. A discussion here - [1]. Suggestions for the date of its founding from various sources (early writers and later proposals) include:

8th century (Gasper Correa)

earlier then 1400 (Gabriel Ferrand) - argues that Malacca was named Malayur but the argument has been rejected

first half of 13th century (Joao de Barrios)

c. 1250 (Malay Annals)

1252-53 (Francois Valentjin)

14th century c. 1350 or c. 1384 (Diogo de Couto)

last quarter of 14th century (Otto Blagden)

1403 (Ming dynasty annals)

early 15th century (Tomé Pires)

1411 (Manuel de Erédia)

1420 (Brás de Albuquerque)

1425 (Ludovico de Varthema)

Some scholars have rejected the earlier dates because Malacca was not mentioned by people who passed through the strait in the 13th and 14th century, for example, Marco Polo, Odoric of Pordenone, Ibn Battuta, and not in other sources like the Javanese Nagarakretagama. It is also argued that the history of Malacca is closely linked with that of Singapura, and an earlier dating would separate the two. It doesn't look like the earlier dates are widely accepted, but it can be mentioned that others have proposed earlier dates, given that a number of authors appear to indicate that Malacca may have existed before 1400, but possibly was not a significant place. Hzh (talk) 16:27, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

I know I'm late, but just saw this. Just saying that the above makes sense to me Danial Bass (talk) 10:00, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Using the term empire

So the only acclaimed historian I can find so far using the term empire to Malacca is Peter Borschberg from NUS. So while I think we can use the term, it should be used sparingly as its still not a conventional term in books/journals. Its usually called Malacca Sultanate and not Malaccan Empire even though I think its still technically correct. I changed the short desc since the editor is still correct in saying that it's not just on the Malayan Peninsula, just my thoughts on this. I removed bits that mentioned empire but I won't be averse if someone would include it sparingly and in the correct context Danial Bass (talk) 09:55, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Flag of Malacca

Cantino planisphere (1502)

Someone here kept adding what they think was the flag of Malacca Sultanate, but has not provided independent sources for the suggestion. Looking at the source of that flag, which is given in Cantino planisphere, it appears that this is a generic representation of an Islamic state because you can see the same crescent symbol on a red background on flags all over the map. The only main difference with the other flags is the shapes of the flags (the Malacca one is in the shape of a swallowtail pennon, others has one to 6 tails, what the tails and number of pennons represent I don't know).

You can tell the flag is generic because you have mainly two different types of designs in this map outside of Europe - crescent on red background (occasionally partly blue), and blue rectangle with what I assume are stars and a red fringe. Given the number of flags there, it is unreasonable to think that they are mostly of only two main different types, and with only two different background colours (red and blue) if they are real representation of the actual flags. Other than the shape (number of tails and pennons) of the flags, there are just a couple that look different.

The Portuguese also hadn't arrived in Malacca yet in 1502, so how would the creator of the map know what the flag looked like? They couldn't even represent the saltire of Scotland properly (should have a blue background), so how they could represent a flag accurately from somewhere so far away that they hadn't visited is dubious at best. Hzh (talk) 10:03, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Malacca flag as shown in the Cantino Planisphere (1512).png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. Surijeal (talk) 09:46, 15 October 2023 (UTC)